ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 5

vaderito wrote:Rey eats space pomegranate in the witch's castle right before Prince's saber calls out ot her and she has the vision of the Prince in shiny armor who saves her life. But she's scared of him so she runs into enchanted woods where she meets him in person. he puts her in enchated sleep and carries her like a bride to his ship, across threshold. Yeah.

@vaderito

Maz is Hecate, for sure. Talking about crossroads, the path Rey needs to take to find belonging, knowing that Ben could still come back. In the documentary, Maz's castle scene is talked about as the place where everything slows down and we move into a new act of the movie. yes...to the underworld

@Darth Dingbat

Yes, Novel!Kylo is not very likable. But then I'd rather not start on the novelizations again. Money thrown out the window.
You see Rey as a potential Empress? I see what you mean. I do think she has more leading qualities as Kylo, but I also see her as a warrior rather than a ruler.

Maybe we will be surprised at how Kylo leads the Knights of Ren. And all of a sudden we could see a sort of King rising - I cannot use the word Emperor, my teeth are gritting. And we would get eventually a King and Queen ruling. I must say though, the idea of 2 force sensitive people ruling over a Galaxy of mostly non force sensitive people is a bit disturbing to me. It sounds like the superior race leading the inferior race, if that makes any sense. I would rather have a mix of FS and non FS people ruling.

I guess my favorite - for today because my mind can change quickly sometimes - would be that Leia would take the lead and Finn would be included in whatever supporting political role he could get. I like the idea that a stormtrooper who freed himself from "slavery" plays a role in the future of the Galaxy. I'd then rather see Kylo and Rey as having a special status as force consultants / enforcers - I cannot find a term that fits...

SanghaRen wrote:Yes, Novel!Kylo is not very likable.

@SanghaRen

Novel!Rey is even worse, and Juniornovel!Chewbacca, holy s***... I think the only likeable novel character was BB-8.

BastilaBey wrote:  

Maz is Hecate, for sure. Talking about crossroads, the path Rey needs to take to find belonging, knowing that Ben could still come back. In the documentary, Maz's castle scene is talked about as the place where everything slows down and we move into a new act of the movie. yes...to the underworld

@BastilaBey

Maz castle is also the place where Rey and Finn journeys become separate and Rey's become joined with Kylo's thought the Force and sexual attraction to each other.hence why she didn't look back when Finn left her (belonging you seek is not behind you) but kept going towards the voices calling out to her (it is ahead). OTOH, she left Kylo who is her belonging, hence why she looked back because she was the one that left him,though not of her own will, not the other way around. He is her future.

@SanghaRen: Couldn't agree more about the novelisations. Money down the drain.

SanghaRen wrote:I must say though, the idea of 2 force sensitive people ruling over a Galaxy of mostly non force sensitive people is a bit disturbing to me. It sounds like the superior race leading the inferior race, if that makes any sense.

@SanghaRen

It sounds very disturbing to me. As does that Visual Dictionary quote about Kylo considering it his birthright to "rule the weaker beings of the galaxy".

Rimfaxe96 wrote:

SanghaRen wrote:Yes, Novel!Kylo is not very likable.

@SanghaRen

Novel!Rey is even worse, and Juniornovel!Chewbacca, holy s***... I think the only likeable novel character was BB-8.

@Rimfaxe96

Frankly, Novel!Everybody straight up sucks. It's like that novel went through a juice presser to squeeze out all the charm.

Darth Dingbat wrote:It sounds very disturbing to me. As does that Visual Dictionary quote about Kylo considering it his birthright to "rule the weaker beings of the galaxy".

@Darth Dingbat

Unless it's proven otherwise, I personally believe this might be due to Snoke's influence. He probably played on this by using Vader and his connection to Kylo by convincing him that it was his destiny to "rule the weaker beings of the galaxy" and Kylo came to believe this. But of course, it's another way to get and keep Kylo as a pawn. That's my theory anyway.

I've been thinking something. TP was about Seduction by the Dark Side. ST is about seduction by the Light. ROTS soundtrack:

1. "Star Wars and the Revenge of the Sith"   7:31
2. "Anakin's Dream"   4:46
3. "Battle of the Heroes"   3:42
4. "Anakin's Betrayal"   4:04
5. "General Grievous"   4:07
6. "Palpatine's Teachings"   5:25
7. "Grievous and the Droids"   3:28
8. "Padmé's Ruminations"   3:17
9. "Anakin vs. Obi-Wan"   3:57
10. "Anakin's Dark Deeds"   4:05
11. "Enter Lord Vader"   4:14
12. "The Immolation Scene"   2:42
13. "Grievous Speaks to Lord Sidious"   2:49
14. "The Birth of the Twins and Padmé's Destiny"   3:37
15. "A New Hope and End Credits"   13:06

So if ST is about reversal - dark character gets seduced by the light than we'll get reversed music cues aka reversed plot points. So, for example, instead of Enter Lord Vader, there should be Enter Ben Whatever-His-Last-Name, not Enter Renperor. I'm talking about Episode IX. otherwise all the talk about pull of the light and "i will not be seduced [by the Light]" make no sense. In previous trilogies, characters vowed not to be seduced by the Dark Side, and we followed Anakin's seduction to the Dark Side. So there has to be seduction to the Light cause they talk about that a lot and Kylo tries to resist it just like Anakin and Luke tried to resist DS (and Anakin failed).

Hopefully Kylo's seduction by the Light gets something as epic as this:

@vaderito
If i had to choose one thing i absolutely have no doubt about, that would be the music, JW is genius

This reminds me of Hades's chariot pulling by the Four horses that he used when he kidnapped Persephone and take her away

^^^That's the moment when I say "Rey, you're boyfriend has arrived!!!"

I'm a nerd like that. But I do like the Hades/Persephone analogy much better...

IoJovi wrote:^^^That's the moment when I say "Rey, you're boyfriend has arrived!!!"  

I'm a nerd like that.  But I do like the Hades/Persephone analogy much better...

@IoJovi

Come to think of it, speaking of all the have to be intentional paralleling that happens, in that scene you get both KR and Poe showing up with the parallels between one with Rey and the other with the "that's one Hell of a pilot" line. Kind of sets up the 4 characters and how they pair off in their respective narrative/character arcs because that's been called out as an important scene.

IoJovi wrote:^^^That's the moment when I say "Rey, you're boyfriend has arrived!!!"

I'm a nerd like that. But I do like the Hades/Persephone analogy much better...

Even that shot is foreshadowing. Again it lingers a little too long between the spaceship and her staring at the ship. It's like destiny
@IoJovi

Sylvia Snow wrote:This reminds me of Hades's chariot pulling by the Four horses that he used when he kidnapped Persephone and take her away

@Sylvia Snow

Awesome observation. We clearly see 4 "horses" in front of Kylo's ship, and they are far away from the rest.

I'm not sure it is a coincidence, especially considering Rey does eat a fruit that suspiciously looks like a pomegranate (and she's the only one who eats it) before going to the underworld.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I just realized that Rey is doing something kind of interesting when she hears about the "fight against the Dark Side" for the first time from Maz.



Eating a fruit, as in forbidden fruit mise-en-scene. I can't say if this was intentional but the fact that it's aligned with Rey learning about the dark side is definitely something to consider.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Definitely looks apple-ish too.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I just realized that Rey is doing something kind of interesting when she hears about the "fight against the Dark Side" for the first time from Maz.



Eating a fruit, as in forbidden fruit mise-en-scene. I can't say if this was intentional but the fact that it's aligned with Rey learning about the dark side is definitely something to consider.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Definitely looks apple-ish too.

@SoloSideCousin
I would be willing to say it's more likely an apple (because of the snake hiss). I really don't see the Hades/Persephone symbolism. I think the four ships were pure coincidence, but a nice coincidence.

vaderito wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:  

Maz is Hecate, for sure. Talking about crossroads, the path Rey needs to take to find belonging, knowing that Ben could still come back. In the documentary, Maz's castle scene is talked about as the place where everything slows down and we move into a new act of the movie. yes...to the underworld

@BastilaBey

Maz castle is also the place where Rey and Finn journeys become separate and Rey's become joined with Kylo's thought the Force and sexual attraction to each other.hence why she didn't look back when Finn left her (belonging you seek is not behind you) but kept going towards the voices calling out to her (it is ahead). OTOH, she left Kylo who is her belonging, hence why she looked back because she was the one that left him,though not of her own will, not the other way around. He is her future.

@vaderito

Wow! I never thought about this looking back comparison. It's so true.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I just realized that Rey is doing something kind of interesting when she hears about the "fight against the Dark Side" for the first time from Maz.



Eating a fruit, as in forbidden fruit mise-en-scene. I can't say if this was intentional but the fact that it's aligned with Rey learning about the dark side is definitely something to consider.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Definitely looks apple-ish too.

@SoloSideCousin
I would be willing to say it's more likely an apple (because of the snake hiss). I really don't see the Hades/Persephone symbolism. I think the four ships were pure coincidence, but a nice coincidence.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Is there a snake hiss at that moment?

Garden of Eden or at least a very fertile planet (Demeter, Persephone's mother, was goddess of harvest and fertility)



Eats forbidden fruit (space pomegranate or space apple)




Narcissus flower (planted by Gaia at Hades order) enchants Persephone, lures her to pick it up:



Hades arrives in a chariot with 4 horses



Hades steals Persephone:



Carries her across the threshold



Into the Underworld  



She can't leave Underworld in winter

SoloSideCousin wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I just realized that Rey is doing something kind of interesting when she hears about the "fight against the Dark Side" for the first time from Maz.



Eating a fruit, as in forbidden fruit mise-en-scene. I can't say if this was intentional but the fact that it's aligned with Rey learning about the dark side is definitely something to consider.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Definitely looks apple-ish too.

@SoloSideCousin

You're probably right..having characters eat on screen is never added by accident..the continuity is a nightmare so it must have been imortant..or fitting for the scene/whats being said

SoloSideCousin wrote:

vaderito wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:  

Maz is Hecate, for sure. Talking about crossroads, the path Rey needs to take to find belonging, knowing that Ben could still come back. In the documentary, Maz's castle scene is talked about as the place where everything slows down and we move into a new act of the movie. yes...to the underworld

@BastilaBey

Maz castle is also the place where Rey and Finn journeys become separate and Rey's become joined with Kylo's thought the Force and sexual attraction to each other.hence why she didn't look back when Finn left her (belonging you seek is not behind you) but kept going towards the voices calling out to her (it is ahead). OTOH, she left Kylo who is her belonging, hence why she looked back because she was the one that left him,though not of her own will, not the other way around. He is her future.

@vaderito

Wow! I never thought about this looking back comparison. It's so true.

@SoloSideCousin
No, just the hiss and rattlesnake rattle as he removes his helmet and she sees his face for the first time. I just think the apple works better because we already have an example of Garden of Eden symbolism in the sound.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@SoloSideCousin
No, just the hiss and rattlesnake rattle as he removes his helmet and she sees his face for the first time. I just think the apple works better because we already have an example of Garden of Eden symbolism in the sound.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I think that they simultaneously play with so many symbolism's that one can make a case for several famous stories. That said, what matters is which way they'll go in the end. I'd say Adam&Eve over Hades&Persephone because they need new beginning, new everything.

Also...no one else is eating in that scene...

Gemini wrote:Also...no one else is eating in that scene...

@Gemini
Yep, that's why I remembered it. And it directly follows Kylo's pull to the light scene. You go from Kylo talking about the temptation of the light to Rey hearing about the fight against the dark side while eating a fruit.

vaderito wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@SoloSideCousin
No, just the hiss and rattlesnake rattle as he removes his helmet and she sees his face for the first time. I just think the apple works better because we already have an example of Garden of Eden symbolism in the sound.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I think that they simultaneously play with so many symbolism's that one can make a case for several famous stories. That said, what matters is which way they'll go in the end. I'd say Adam&Eve over Hades&Persephone because they need new beginning, new everything.

@vaderito
I just think Adam and Eve is more recognizable, therefore more likely to be the direct inspiration. The fact that there seem to be two examples emphasizes that point.