ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 8

bela.mesecina wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

AppleCrumble122 wrote:Very interesting new theory from gwendy85:

@AppleCrumble122

Thanks for posting that.  It was very interesting.  I like hearing all the different theories people have come up with.  It gives us more to speculate about during the long wait until Episode VIII comes out.

I have a question about the junior novelization.  I have the Kindle edition, although I haven't read the whole thing yet.  Anyway, I tried to look up the passage mentioned around the 1:07 mark, which she said is from page 35.  I tried searching for some of the words on the Kindle edition but I couldn't find it.  Does anyone know if there is more than one junior novelization, or if the Kindle edition is different than the hard copy edition?

@Kyla Ren

I read something similar in ADF version but don't remember in which chapter. It mentions voice and nightmares/dreams

@bela.mesecina

I read the ADF version, but it only mentions the "I'll come back for you" voice in Rey's Forceback vision.  In the Kindle edition of the junior novelization it also only mentions the voice in the Forceback vision scene.  I guess they cut the scene from page 35 of the hard copy out of the Kindle edition altogether.  From what I gathered from the video, that scene takes place in Rey's AT-AT home on Jakku.

Slade wrote:

Not sure if this is the best place to drop this. It is what I am reading right now, literally, and reminded me of our Space Brat. Written by one James Beattie in the 18th century.

@Slade

that is so cool.

as i recall from way back studying romanticism, is that the sublime inspires awe and it is not pleasing. i think kylo as a character is no pleasing and is not written to be, erm, pleasurable in that way, he is not meek.

and the fallen angel imagery is very potent with him. we discussed some aeons ago how his sword was also likely inspired by asrael i think???? there's an image of an angle with a similarly flamed sword.

when i say i love the character unreservedly, it is precisely also because no effort was made to make him palatable. that in itself is so rare, it's almost non-existent in cinema, i think. the guy is very rough around the edges and i love that.

Kyla Ren wrote:

bela.mesecina wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

AppleCrumble122 wrote:Very interesting new theory from gwendy85:

@AppleCrumble122

Thanks for posting that.  It was very interesting.  I like hearing all the different theories people have come up with.  It gives us more to speculate about during the long wait until Episode VIII comes out.

I have a question about the junior novelization.  I have the Kindle edition, although I haven't read the whole thing yet.  Anyway, I tried to look up the passage mentioned around the 1:07 mark, which she said is from page 35.  I tried searching for some of the words on the Kindle edition but I couldn't find it.  Does anyone know if there is more than one junior novelization, or if the Kindle edition is different than the hard copy edition?

@Kyla Ren

I read something similar in ADF version but don't remember in which chapter. It mentions voice and nightmares/dreams

@bela.mesecina

I read the ADF version, but it only mentions the "I'll come back for you" voice in Rey's Forceback vision.  In the Kindle edition of the junior novelization it also only mentions the voice in the Forceback vision scene.  I guess they cut the scene from page 35 of the hard copy out of the Kindle edition altogether.  From what I gathered from the video, that scene takes place in Rey's AT-AT home on Jakku.

@Kyla Ren

I haven't watched the video, I just skipped to that part to sea what she meant...I don't think it was in Rey's vision, somewhere else, I really don't remember where but I know I have read that part before...who knows, maybe they didn't really know what to write or they changed that part later...

AppleCrumble122 wrote:Very interesting new theory from gwendy85:

@AppleCrumble122

Wow, this is amazing. I only read the adult novelization, but this fits into my theory. I'm 100% sure that the voice belongs to Kylo Ren, but I think it's from the past, not the future.

I think he left her somewhere at one point, came back for her, but couldn't find her. Someone else got to her before him, and this is the person who left her on Jakku. Possibly Luke. I know it sounds weird and too convoluted, but I can't see any other explanation, at least not at the moment.

First, the voice is not likely to be from the future because Rey is no longer passive. She can't be abandoned somewhere with promises of return, she wouldn't have it. Also, I don't think the story would have her in a position where she once again feels abandoned. That was the most horrible thing that even happened to her (I assume), and going through it again would be devastating.

But what really makes be believe that Ren left Rey somewhere is the fact that he was obviously looking for a girl. His reaction to that officer's news can't be explained in any other way. Also, there's the "It is you". This might mean that he realized she's the awakening, but I don't think so. He looks like he won the lottery on his birthday despite the fact that he's bleeding out. And when Snoke mentioned the awakening the first time, he didn't seem too interested. Clearly, he discovered something that is much more important.

And the fact that he was looking for her would explain why Rey kept hearing that voice. He was always out there, trying to connect with her. Also, if Luke was the one who found her before Ren and left her on Jakku, it's obvious why Ren was hell-bent to find him. Luke is the only person who knows where Rey is. It makes sense to me because Snoke doesn't seem too interested in finding Luke. He just wants him to stay where he is and not get involved in the war. Ren is the only one interested in Luke's location because he has a very important "personal interest".

Lastly, a prior connection with Ren would explain why Rey was able to get inside his mind so easily. No matter how gifted she is, that takes skill. I doubt that Ren just opened a channel that she could use at will. In the book, it's obvious that this has never happened to him before, which might mean that not even Snoke is able to do it. Yet a girl with no training can. Sure, she got a lot of information from his mind, that's how she learned mind tricks etc. But to get there in the first place...some kind of connection must have already existed. The same connection that made her hear the voice all her life.  

Yeah, it's crazy. What was Ben Solo doing with a 5 year old? How come he didn't find out that Luke hid her until many years later? Why DID Luke hid her? Why does Rey think that she was abandoned by her family? I have no idea, I'm mostly taking shots in the dark. But finding out what Luke did, that he's been lied for many years, would give Ren another good reason to hate the Jedi. His family lied, the Jedi lied....I know I'd turn to the dark side too.

"I could walk there and pick it up, but it wouldn't look as cool".

Has this been posted? Kylo looks creepy, he sounds like the emperor. Embraaace the dark side... A little off. He never mentions the dark side.


But then.... yes, yes, that's it. Kylo is clearly enjoying the beating.

@force22 Erm...this is a little weird. "Yes, yes, that's it!" Kylo is a masochist.

@Force22
Rey looks psycho with the lightsaber when she's whacking him LOL. And that line about picking up the saber is great. I agree though, the dark side stuff feels off because he doesn't say anything like that to Rey in the movie. In fact they had him specifically not say "dark side" when he offered to teach her, but the Lego games are mostly just jokes and interpretations, so it's understandable.

Starchaser wrote:

AppleCrumble122 wrote:Very interesting new theory from gwendy85:

@AppleCrumble122

Wow, this is amazing. I only read the adult novelization, but this fits into my theory. I'm 100% sure that the voice belongs to Kylo Ren, but I think it's from the past, not the future.

I think he left her somewhere at one point, came back for her, but couldn't find her. Someone else got to her before him, and this is the person who left her on Jakku. Possibly Luke. I know it sounds weird and too convoluted, but I can't see any other explanation, at least not at the moment.

[b]First, the voice is not likely to be from the future because Rey is no longer passive. She can't be abandoned somewhere with promises of return, she wouldn't have it. Also, I don't think the story would have her in a position where she once again feels abandoned. That was the most horrible thing that even happened to her (I assume), and going through it again would be devastating. [/b]

But what really makes be believe that Ren left Rey somewhere is the fact that he was obviously looking for a girl. His reaction to that officer's news can't be explained in any other way. Also, there's the "It is you". This might mean that he realized she's the awakening, but I don't think so. He looks like he won the lottery on his birthday despite the fact that he's bleeding out. And when Snoke mentioned the awakening the first time, he didn't seem too interested. Clearly, he discovered something that is much more important.

And the fact that he was looking for her would explain why Rey kept hearing that voice. He was always out there, trying to connect with her. Also, if Luke was the one who found her before Ren and left her on Jakku, it's obvious why Ren was hell-bent to find him. Luke is the only person who knows where Rey is. It makes sense to me because Snoke doesn't seem too interested in finding Luke. He just wants him to stay where he is and not get involved in the war. Ren is the only one interested in Luke's location because he has a very important "personal interest".

Lastly, a prior connection with Ren would explain why Rey was able to get inside his mind so easily. No matter how gifted she is, that takes skill. I doubt that Ren just opened a channel that she could use at will. In the book, it's obvious that this has never happened to him before, which might mean that not even Snoke is able to do it. Yet a girl with no training can. Sure, she got a lot of information from his mind, that's how she learned mind tricks etc. But to get there in the first place...some kind of connection must have already existed. The same connection that made her hear the voice all her life.  

Yeah, it's crazy. What was Ben Solo doing with a 5 year old? How come he didn't find out that Luke hid her until many years later? Why DID Luke hid her? Why does Rey think that she was abandoned by her family? I have no idea, I'm mostly taking shots in the dark. But finding out what Luke did, that he's been lied for many years, would give Ren another good reason to hate the Jedi. His family lied, the Jedi lied....I know I'd turn to the dark side too.

@Starchaser



I love you theories, and I agree with you 100%, on all the highlighted points, and there are logical clues and foreshadowing in the movie and the novel. that lead me to believe it is from the past... you broke it down so well so I won't repeat it, however I will add this

"the voice was calm, kind and eerily familiar..." To me calm and kind, could easily be turned into " he was weak and foolish," if young Ben did not succeed in fulfilling his promise to come back.

The girl he was expecting was someone special, because he is clearly disappointed that Rey was just a scavenger, and not the girl he thinks he is looking for....

Just saw the snow fight scene in the Lego game too. Adam was hilarious when he said it wouldn't look cool if he just walked over to the lightsaber and picked it up. The way he kept telling Rey to strike at him and get angry and feel/join the dark side was a bit odd. Instead of saying she needs a teacher he just started teaching her and I think he was liking it too much when she hit him. I found it strangely suggestive. Just me?

I was actually expecting more slapstick from the Lego game, but the dialogue was more direct and straight from the movie than I thought.

Anyway, it's cute and the expressions from Kylo in the interrogation are played well. It's just such a big mismatch having AD's deep voice for a tiny little lego guy.

What's with the fruit?

He still carried Rey even if he let her drop first! The must've changed after the game was designed. So cute seeing a lego carry another lego aha.

OMG THE HUX ICE CREAM AND IT GETTING ON KYLO WAS THE ABSOLUTE BEST IN THE ENTIRE THING, close second is Kylo's dialogue while he was trying to get the lightsaber.

I bet stormpilot people are mad they took out the hug and lip bite.

It's interesting to see what they changed from the movie.

I think my fav was Hux walking in on Snoke taking a bath

bela.mesecina wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

bela.mesecina wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

AppleCrumble122 wrote:Very interesting new theory from gwendy85:

@AppleCrumble122

Thanks for posting that.  It was very interesting.  I like hearing all the different theories people have come up with.  It gives us more to speculate about during the long wait until Episode VIII comes out.

I have a question about the junior novelization.  I have the Kindle edition, although I haven't read the whole thing yet.  Anyway, I tried to look up the passage mentioned around the 1:07 mark, which she said is from page 35.  I tried searching for some of the words on the Kindle edition but I couldn't find it.  Does anyone know if there is more than one junior novelization, or if the Kindle edition is different than the hard copy edition?

@Kyla Ren

I read something similar in ADF version but don't remember in which chapter. It mentions voice and nightmares/dreams

@bela.mesecina

I read the ADF version, but it only mentions the "I'll come back for you" voice in Rey's Forceback vision.  In the Kindle edition of the junior novelization it also only mentions the voice in the Forceback vision scene.  I guess they cut the scene from page 35 of the hard copy out of the Kindle edition altogether.  From what I gathered from the video, that scene takes place in Rey's AT-AT home on Jakku.

@Kyla Ren

I haven't watched the video, I just skipped to that part to sea what she meant...I don't think it was in Rey's vision, somewhere else, I really don't remember where but I know I have read that part before...who knows, maybe they didn't really know what to write or they changed that part later...

@bela.mesecina

You're right.  The part she was talking about wasn't in Rey's vision.  It's a scene that takes place in Rey's AT-AT home.  But I did a search for the words "sweetheart" and "I'll come back" in both the Kindle junior novelization and the Kindle ADF edition and the only passages that came up involving Rey were Rey's Forceback vision in Maz's castle.  Well, also, the scene where Unkar Plutt wants her to sell BB-8 to him, but that doesn't count.  Maybe the hard copy editions are different than the Kindle versions.  I don't know.  I only have the Kindle versions.

Junior novelization:

salmund wrote:Junior novelization:

@salmund

Thanks for posting that.  I just checked the Kindle edition of the junior novelization and it skips from the line right above the highlighted passage that says "FN-2187 began to consider other options" to "Kylo Ren entered the detention cell".  It seems that they omitted that passage from the Kindle edition for some reason.  It's very weird.  I wonder what other differences there might be between the Kindle and hard copy editions of both the junior novelization and the ADF version.

salmund wrote:Junior novelization:

@salmund

Now, this is interesting. In the junior novelization she's haunted by a dream or nightmare.
In the novelization it is said that she saw Kylo before, in a daydream, in nightmare:




Coincidence?

@echobase Whoa. I had never given this much thought, honestly, I just thought the 'in dreams or nightmare' quote was in reference to the vision Rey saw when she touched the saber. Does this mean she was having dreams on Jakku and it's Kylo's voice she hears? Why did they leave that out of the movie? And when he says 'what girl' and 'the girl I've heard so much about', is she somehow already familiar to him too? This is so strange.

BastilaBey wrote:@echobase Whoa. I had never given this much thought, honestly, I just thought the 'in dreams or nightmare' quote was in reference to the vision Rey saw when she touched the saber. Does this mean she was having dreams on Jakku and it's Kylo's voice she hears? Why did they leave that out of the movie? And when he says 'what girl' and 'the girl I've heard so much about', is she somehow already familiar to him too? This is so strange.

@BastilaBey

It could be. Very intriguing. It is a whole new perspective.

What really confuses me is, I've already decided that the two never met before. Somehow it seemed impossible. But what if they did?

And the voice she's hearing. I think it was clarified by Pablo Hidalgo that it's a male voice of am I mistaken?

And why is she called "sweetheart", in both versions of the novelization?

guardienne wrote:

Slade wrote:

Not sure if this is the best place to drop this. It is what I am reading right now, literally, and reminded me of our Space Brat. Written by one James Beattie in the 18th century.

@Slade

that is so cool.

as i recall from way back studying romanticism, is that the sublime inspires awe and it is not pleasing. i think kylo as a character is no pleasing and is not written to be, erm, pleasurable in that way, he is not meek.

and the fallen angel imagery is very potent with him. we discussed some aeons ago how his sword was also likely inspired by asrael i think???? there's an image of an angle with a similarly flamed sword.

when i say i love the character unreservedly, it is precisely also because no effort was made to make him palatable. that in itself is so rare, it's almost non-existent in cinema, i think. the guy is very rough around the edges and i love that.

@guardienne

Archangel Michael is the one with the flaming sword, I think.  The photo is from a book on Gothic literature (which is an offshoot of Romanticism).  And yes, the sublime can be terrifying.  It is not "nice" and certainly not safe.

BastilaBey wrote:@echobase Whoa. I had never given this much thought, honestly, I just thought the 'in dreams or nightmare' quote was in reference to the vision Rey saw when she touched the saber. Does this mean she was having dreams on Jakku and it's Kylo's voice she hears? Why did they leave that out of the movie? And when he says 'what girl' and 'the girl I've heard so much about', is she somehow already familiar to him too? This is so strange.

@BastilaBey
I figured the writing in the novelizations was very left open to author interpretation. It's probably just a coincidence that they happened to both go for the "in a daydream, in a nightmare" description. The description from the children's novelization sounds like it could be referencing anything from Rey's mysterious and potentially painful past. But I guess it's possible both originally came from something in the shooting script?

ladyconsular wrote:Just saw the snow fight scene in the Lego game too. Adam was hilarious when he said it wouldn't look cool if he just walked over to the lightsaber and picked it up. The way he kept telling Rey to strike at him and get angry and feel/join the dark side was a bit odd. Instead of saying she needs a teacher he just started teaching her and I think he was liking it too much when she hit him. I found it strangely suggestive. Just me?

@ladyconsular

I thought it was super suggestive.

"Yes, yes, that's it". I mean... Had the scene continued would he be saying "ooh baby, yes, yes, yes".
Anyways, that's what I got from the scene, and I don't think I have a particularly dirty mind. But he's completely dark, and teaching the dark side, so it's different.

Force22 wrote:

ladyconsular wrote:Just saw the snow fight scene in the Lego game too. Adam was hilarious when he said it wouldn't look cool if he just walked over to the lightsaber and picked it up. The way he kept telling Rey to strike at him and get angry and feel/join the dark side was a bit odd. Instead of saying she needs a teacher he just started teaching her and I think he was liking it too much when she hit him. I found it strangely suggestive. Just me?

@ladyconsular

I thought it was super suggestive.

"Yes, yes, that's it". I mean... Had the scene continued would he be saying "ooh baby, yes, yes, yes".
Anyways, that's what I got from the scene, and I don't think I have a particularly dirty mind. But he's completely dark, and teaching the dark side, so it's different.

@Force22

That voice didn't even sound like Adam either. I mean it could have been ... but it wasn't the perfect "Kylo Ren" tone. Do they add in voices where they don't have something from the movie?

Force22 wrote:

ladyconsular wrote:Just saw the snow fight scene in the Lego game too. Adam was hilarious when he said it wouldn't look cool if he just walked over to the lightsaber and picked it up. The way he kept telling Rey to strike at him and get angry and feel/join the dark side was a bit odd. Instead of saying she needs a teacher he just started teaching her and I think he was liking it too much when she hit him. I found it strangely suggestive. Just me?

@ladyconsular

I thought it was super suggestive.

"Yes, yes, that's it". I mean... Had the scene continued would he be saying "ooh baby, yes, yes, yes".
Anyways, that's what I got from the scene, and I don't think I have a particularly dirty mind. But he's completely dark, and teaching the dark side, so it's different.

@Force22

I've just watched a livestream of it. Before that he says the "It is you." line. He also tells her that she could "command armies", "crush her enemies" and "bring planets to their knees on your merest whim.". Take from it what you will, but it sounds to me like she's complimenting her new found power there.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Force22 wrote:

ladyconsular wrote:Just saw the snow fight scene in the Lego game too. Adam was hilarious when he said it wouldn't look cool if he just walked over to the lightsaber and picked it up. The way he kept telling Rey to strike at him and get angry and feel/join the dark side was a bit odd. Instead of saying she needs a teacher he just started teaching her and I think he was liking it too much when she hit him. I found it strangely suggestive. Just me?

@ladyconsular

I thought it was super suggestive.

"Yes, yes, that's it". I mean... Had the scene continued would he be saying "ooh baby, yes, yes, yes".
Anyways, that's what I got from the scene, and I don't think I have a particularly dirty mind. But he's completely dark, and teaching the dark side, so it's different.

@Force22

That voice didn't even sound like Adam either. I mean it could have been ... but it wasn't the perfect "Kylo Ren" tone. Do they add in voices where they don't have something from the movie?

@SoloSideCousin

All the actors voiced their parts in the game and I noticed all of them had a softer tone, especially Harrison. That was definitely Adam you heard. He's in the credits. They even said the characters would have new dialogue all voiced by the cast.

And in reply to @Force22 I felt awkward hearing that and was wondering where it was going myself lol

SoloSideCousin wrote:That voice didn't even sound like Adam either. I mean it could have been ... but it wasn't the perfect "Kylo Ren" tone. Do they add in voices where they don't have something from the movie?

@SoloSideCousin They do do that, but in this case they got the main actors to voice new lines. They confirmed it at E3.

AppleCrumble122 wrote:

Force22 wrote:

ladyconsular wrote:Just saw the snow fight scene in the Lego game too. Adam was hilarious when he said it wouldn't look cool if he just walked over to the lightsaber and picked it up. The way he kept telling Rey to strike at him and get angry and feel/join the dark side was a bit odd. Instead of saying she needs a teacher he just started teaching her and I think he was liking it too much when she hit him. I found it strangely suggestive. Just me?

@ladyconsular

I thought it was super suggestive.

"Yes, yes, that's it". I mean... Had the scene continued would he be saying "ooh baby, yes, yes, yes".
Anyways, that's what I got from the scene, and I don't think I have a particularly dirty mind. But he's completely dark, and teaching the dark side, so it's different.

@Force22

I've just watched a livestream of it. Before that he says the "It is you." line. He also tells her that she could "command armies", "crush her enemies" and "bring planets to their knees on your merest whim.". Take from it what you will, but it sounds to me like she's complimenting her new found power there.

@AppleCrumble122
"Crush her enemies", huh? I think she did that pretty well tbh.





Sorry Kylo.