Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Teo oswald wrote:I'm not an expert but I can say who created this new trilogy knew what it was doing.
Reylo was already inside the script of the previous film. It seems to me that Pablo Hidalgo also said something. so they knew what would happen in episode VIII.
many people obviously did not take the Reylo couple well, but they already knew that, and they continued and will continue until the last episode.
the cards are on the table the ink is dry saluti

@Teo oswald

Watching TLJ made me doubt that they really know what they're doing aside from Reylo. The worst is Snoke? It really feels like they found the character problematic and just decided to get rid of him not to have to explain who he is, where he comes from, what are his motivations,...Hope through that Snoke will be one of the ghosts that will torment Kylo in Episode 9, a little a la Maestro Forte in BATB 2.

reylo1992 wrote:

Teo oswald wrote:I'm not an expert but I can say who created this new trilogy knew what it was doing.
Reylo was already inside the script of the previous film. It seems to me that Pablo Hidalgo also said something. so they knew what would happen in episode VIII.
many people obviously did not take the Reylo couple well, but they already knew that, and they continued and will continue until the last episode.
the cards are on the table the ink is dry saluti

@Teo oswald

Watching TLJ made me doubt that they really know what they're doing aside from Reylo. The worst is Snoke? It really feels like they found the character problematic and just decided to get rid of him not to have to explain who he is, where he comes from, what are his motivations,...Hope through that Snoke will be one of the ghosts that will torment Kylo in Episode 9, a little a la Maestro Forte in BATB 2.

@reylo1992

They killed Snoke so kylo could become a snake.

DarthRen wrote:

Blackcanary wrote:

DarthRen wrote:Some people on reddit, twitter still in denial over Rey's parents. One of the few things movie actually adressed. One of my dissapointments with the movie, it was really left open-ended on many fronts.

@DarthRen

I've also seen people in denial over the 'romantic tension', saying Mark was just trolling. I despair, I really do.

@Blackcanary

People are still split on them and movie. I hope movie does well, if not, then it could be a problem for JJ, LF and us fans.

@DarthRen

Tbh, I don't know how J.J. will manage to answer so many remaining questions that could/should have been easily resolved in TLJ. I feel like the movie was a waste of time because all what Rian refused to cover in his 2.30 hours movie is now up to J.J. Really, now I am nearly wishing for a 10th episode because I don't see how J.J. will manage to provide so many left questions and conclude the franchise with a satisfying ending in one movie. I mean, even a little important detail like how Maz got the Skywalker lightsaber wasn't answered. I think that I know why TLJ is pretty disturbing to me: it feels more like a standalone movie than a usual SW episode.

Maria Antonietta wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:

Teo oswald wrote:I'm not an expert but I can say who created this new trilogy knew what it was doing.
Reylo was already inside the script of the previous film. It seems to me that Pablo Hidalgo also said something. so they knew what would happen in episode VIII.
many people obviously did not take the Reylo couple well, but they already knew that, and they continued and will continue until the last episode.
the cards are on the table the ink is dry saluti

@Teo oswald

Watching TLJ made me doubt that they really know what they're doing aside from Reylo. The worst is Snoke? It really feels like they found the character problematic and just decided to get rid of him not to have to explain who he is, where he comes from, what are his motivations,...Hope through that Snoke will be one of the ghosts that will torment Kylo in Episode 9, a little a la Maestro Forte in BATB 2.

@reylo1992

They killed Snoke so kylo could become a snake.

@Maria Antonietta

If that was the goal, he did it well. And Rey's line makes suddenly more sense.

reylo1992 wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Blackcanary wrote:

DarthRen wrote:Some people on reddit, twitter still in denial over Rey's parents. One of the few things movie actually adressed. One of my dissapointments with the movie, it was really left open-ended on many fronts.

@DarthRen

I've also seen people in denial over the 'romantic tension', saying Mark was just trolling. I despair, I really do.

@Blackcanary

People are still split on them and movie. I hope movie does well, if not, then it could be a problem for JJ, LF and us fans.

@DarthRen

Tbh, I don't know how J.J. will manage to answer so many remaining questions that could/should have been easily resolved in TLJ. I feel like the movie was a waste of time because all what Rian refused to cover in his 2.30 hours movie is now up to J.J. Really, now I am nearly wishing for a 10th episode because I don't see how J.J. will manage to provide so many left questions and conclude the franchise with a satisfying ending in one movie. I mean, even a little important detail like how Maz got the Skywalker lightsaber wasn't answered. I think that I know why TLJ is pretty disturbing to me: it feels more like a standalone movie than a usual SW episode.

@reylo1992

I know what you mean. It feels like it should have come with a disclaimer at the start: 'I didn't like canon so I just ignored it. All AU from here guys!'

I actually don’t have much bad impression on the movie rather than Luke dying. With Leia unavaiable for the next episode I am pretty much not happy with Luke not being there anymore. I hope they will show Luke in the ghost form trying to teach Rey a thing or two.
And I hope no romance better Rey and Poe cause it will kill my interest in this triology. I would rather see Rey with Finn, much more sense. Or Rey going alone with a school of Jedi.

Meomeo wrote:I actually don’t have much bad impression on the movie rather than Luke dying. With Leia unavaiable for the next episode I am pretty much not happy with Luke not being there anymore. I hope they will show Luke in the ghost form trying to teach Rey a thing or two.
And I hope no romance better Rey and Poe cause it will kill my interest in this triology. I would rather see Rey with Finn, much more sense. Or Rey going alone with a school of Jedi.

@Meomeo

Don't worry. Luke's going to be back in IX and he's probably going to play a major role.

^Yeah sure I hope they will make Luke appear as a force ghost being strong and all. I think we might have a lot of flashbacks in the next episode.

Ynqve wrote:

Meomeo wrote:I actually don’t have much bad impression on the movie rather than Luke dying. With Leia unavaiable for the next episode I am pretty much not happy with Luke not being there anymore. I hope they will show Luke in the ghost form trying to teach Rey a thing or two.
And I hope no romance better Rey and Poe cause it will kill my interest in this triology. I would rather see Rey with Finn, much more sense. Or Rey going alone with a school of Jedi.

@Meomeo

Don't worry. Luke's going to be back in IX and he's probably going to play a major role.

@Ynqve

Space Rafiki! (And Snoke as Space Maestro Forte )

Meomeo wrote:^Yeah sure I hope they will make Luke appear as a force ghost being strong and all. I think we might have a lot of flashbacks in the next episode.

@Meomeo

And I have an odd feeling it will be Rey he appears to...m

To some people calling Reylo an abusive relationship... I have to say... what the hell. They're not even having a relationship... YET.

I see nothing abusive in Kylo x Rey because they're not even having a relationship AT ALL. If she were his girlfriend and he used her and tortured her it would be the case of an abusive relationship (like Anakin/Padme at the end of their marriage). But this is totally different:

1) Rey is technically Kylo's ENEMY. This is war. And whatever he has done to Rey is actually MILD compared to what people do to people in WARS. I would say Kylo is actually VERY gentle with Rey. His Pride and Prejudice's proposal was horrible and laughable. I would give Kylo/Ben benefits of doubts when it comes to the stupid proposal given his status and upbringing. He is privileged and all. I get why he does not understand how to get a girl though. He was rejected rightfully but it does not even make him an abusive boyfriend. It makes him a privileged, entitled jerk who goes mad because the girl he loves says NO and she has right reasons to say no.

2) Is Kylo manipulative? I would say NO. People think he was manipulative when he called Rey nobody to get her on his side. But actually, it emphasizes that he wants Rey (a nobody who was thrown away by her parents by his side). From his view, it's a way to stress that Rey is IMPORTANT TO HIM. It is just wrong in everyone's views. But Kylo is Kylo, whose ego is as big as the galaxy so I get where this came from. I mean look at Mr. Darcy, his proposal was so horrible as well and he was not manipulative. But of course, Mr. Darcy did not lead an army going around killing people.

3) In short, I think Kylo/Ren is an emo kid (psychopath) with unstable mentality who just wants to erase everything and starts a new order. He is not entirely wrong about the whole mess that the galaxy is in. But it does not justify what he is doing. I think he is actually very very sincere and honest to Rey in The Last Jedi. If he were more manipulative, his Pride and Prejudice proposal WOULD NOT BE THAT LAME. I mean, because he is honest to her, and he is so entitled to his status, his words were that horrible. He is so misguided and wrong. That's it.

I don't think Kylo is manipulative, sometimes people need a boot up the a** and he was straight forward with Rey about her parents and where she stands. He needs to give himself his own boot up his a** though!
But then he really only told her what she already knew!

Little_Boots wrote:I don't think Kylo is manipulative, sometimes people need a boot up the a** and he was straight forward with Rey about her parents and where she stands. He needs to give himself his own boot up his a** though!

@Little_Boots

Agreed. What he said was horrible, but it was the truth.

Meomeo wrote:To some people calling Reylo an abusive relationship... I have to say... what the hell. They're not even having a relationship... YET.

I see nothing abusive in Kylo x Rey because they're not even having a relationship AT ALL. If she were his girlfriend and he used her and tortured her it would be the case of an abusive relationship (like Anakin/Padme at the end of their marriage). But this is totally different:

1) Rey is technically Kylo's ENEMY. This is war. And whatever he has done to Rey is actually MILD compared to what people do to people in WARS. I would say Kylo is actually VERY gentle with Rey. His Pride and Prejudice's proposal was horrible and laughable. I would give Kylo/Ben benefits of doubts when it comes to the stupid proposal given his status and upbringing. He is privileged and all. I get why he does not understand how to get a girl though. He was rejected rightfully but it does not even make him an abusive boyfriend. It makes him a privileged, entitled jerk who goes mad because the girl he loves says NO and she has right reasons to say no.

2) Is Kylo manipulative? I would say NO. People think he was manipulative when he called Rey nobody to get her on his side. But actually, it emphasizes that he wants Rey (a nobody who was thrown away by her parents by his side). From his view, it's a way to stress that Rey is IMPORTANT TO HIM. It is just wrong in everyone's views. But Kylo is Kylo, whose ego is as big as the galaxy so I get where this came from. I mean look at Mr. Darcy, his proposal was so horrible as well and he was not manipulative. But of course, Mr. Darcy did not lead an army going around killing people.

3) In short, I think Kylo/Ren is an emo kid (psychopath) with unstable mentality who just wants to erase everything and starts a new order. He is not entirely wrong about the whole mess that the galaxy is in. But it does not justify what he is doing. I think he is actually very very sincere and honest to Rey in The Last Jedi. If he were more manipulative, his Pride and Prejudice proposal WOULD NOT BE THAT LAME. I mean, because he is honest to her, and he is so entitled to his status, his words were that horrible. He is so misguided and wrong. That's it.

@Meomeo '
'
I'm sorry but he isn't. Just because your parents are wealthy doesn't mean he's privileged. Ben was starved of love, understanding and comfort through most of his young life. That is exactly why he told Rey her parents were scumbags who abandoned her. His family were exactly the same. And I don't give a toss they were heroes. Maybe they were very good at saving the universe but they were absolutely at raising a child.

Didn't he say his own parents threw him away?

Little_Boots wrote:I don't think Kylo is manipulative, sometimes people need a boot up the a** and he was straight forward with Rey about her parents and where she stands. He needs to give himself his own boot up his a** though!
But then he really only told her what she already knew!

@Little_Boots

Seeing the bootleg of that scene made me feel so badly for Rey. In the context of the whole movie, if anyone needed a boot up the a**, it was her. Ben loves her enough to be honest with her. Brutally.

motherofpearl1 wrote:
@Meomeo '
'
I'm sorry but he isn't. Just because your parents are wealthy doesn't mean he's privileged. Ben was starved of love, understanding and comfort through most of his young life. That is exactly why he told Rey her parents were scumbags who abandoned her. His family were exactly the same. And I don't give a toss they were heroes. Maybe they were very good at saving the universe but they were absolutely at raising a child.

@motherofpearl1
I meant "privileged" in the scene of being born into a rich family with good status and legacy and being educated/well-trained. In this sense, I am not surprised baby Ben felt that he's special because he's the heir of both Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker. So he is technically from a family with GOOD genes.

While Rey is from a backwater planet, being abandoned by her parents.

It's not a shock that Ben felt like he's "above" everyone else given his power and his family's status. That's why I can get his manners, his speech. But I would say he is HONEST with what he thinks. He is quite sincere with Rey and I don't see him trying to get a manipulative and abusive relationship with Rey. He really wants someone by his side.

AnneNeville wrote:Didn't he say his own parents threw him away?

@AnneNeville

I don't believe so. He said her parents threw her away - the implication, however, is that he feels his did the same. And I agree with him.

they did not have time to dedicate themselves to him

Teo oswald wrote:they did not have time to dedicate themselves to him

@Teo oswald

Or the dedication.

motherofpearl1 wrote:

Teo oswald wrote:they did not have time to dedicate themselves to him

@Teo oswald

Or the dedication.

@motherofpearl1

They didn't make time. Once you have children, being a parent is your job. Rey can redeem herself by leaving the stupid Resistance to be with Ben because his mother sure as hell didn't.

Please let this happen.

I saw the movie last night and really enjoyed it. It wasn’t what I expected (which I knew it wouldn’t be from spoilers ofc), but it was a character driven period piece in space. I have a lot to say about it, but sticking to the topic of Kylo’s words to Rey - I think it was also meant for the audience. Kylo is saying all of the things that a lot of GA and certain fans were saying. If Rey isn’t a Skywalker then how does she fit into the Skywalker story? If she is nobody, then, well, she’s nobody. The beauty of it is that Kylo turns that on its head and is like, no. She is in the Skywalker story because of her connection with me. I’m not saying that her whole importance is around Kylo, not at all, but as for how a nobody fits into a story about the Skywalkers? Obviously that’s through a connection with a Skywalker. It’s just not in a parent/child way. At that point it’s understood that the Skywalker’s hold the force story. At the end we learn that it actually extends much farther. In that sense Rey is both important to the Skywalker story because of Kylo and also important to the story as a whole because of herself. I think that’s a pretty powerful and a nice feminist message. Her story doesn’t need to completely revolve around other people, namely the Skywalker men, to be important. 

So, Kylo’s words work as a bridge between the audience and the story, providing two ways that Rey matters. Through a relationship and through her own power.

I just don't get how people pulled out of it that Kylo was saying Rey is nothing except what she is to him. He's saying in the grand scheme of the galaxy, with his background of being in the absolutely batsith Skywalker family at the center of so many terrible and wonderful things, Rey is a nobody and is nothing. And that's true: he doesn't have the advantage of an insider and overarching look into the plot in which he knows Rey is the protagonist and hero of this story who will become something amazing and change the galaxy. Technically, she's a nobody who came from nothing.

But he's saying that HE does not think of her as nothing. Right now, she's a nobody to the galaxy at large, but she's not nobody to him. He doesn't even say "everybody else thinks you're nothing except for me" and he definitely didn't say "you're nothing unless you're with me". The way he said it was jerkish and blunt and that was the entire point, but it wasn't a false statement in the technicality of it. It felt like a meta look at how someone with Rey's backstory is viewed within the context of a series dominated by big names like the Skywalkers. I mean, look at all the things Reywalker believers said about her for all this time.

But we as the audience know that Rey has the potential to be far from a nobody to the entire galaxy. And I think by the end of TLJ, so does she. Kylo finding her genuinely worthy and important as a person isn't enough to anchor her to him when he's still acting this way, so she rejects him. As she should.

We've come a long way. Look at this article from freakin' Vanity Fair: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-reylo-do-kylo-and-rey-fall-in-love-sex