Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Gemini wrote:Well its not going down well on rotten tomatoes

This is what happens when you try to destroy everything you have built for a fanbase and "move forward" and then they want you to buy books on jedi and sith..

Thank god jj is coming back to fix this

DarthRen wrote:

Gemini wrote:Well its not going down well on rotten tomatoes

This is what happens when you try to destroy everything you have built for a fanbase and "move forward" and then they want you to buy books on jedi and sith..

Thank god jj is coming back to fix this

@Gemini

What matters to them is the box office results. If it makes money, critics already likes that, that is a win for them.

Gemini wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Gemini wrote:Well its not going down well on rotten tomatoes

This is what happens when you try to destroy everything you have built for a fanbase and "move forward" and then they want you to buy books on jedi and sith..

Thank god jj is coming back to fix this

@Gemini

What matters to them is the box office results. If it makes money, critics already likes that, that is a win for them.

@DarthRen

No its still not good audience reaction matters

Because if an aidience dislike it on mass it effects the sales of the next movie.

Look at TPM

People flocked in because they loved return of the jedi

But the mess of TPM effected attack of the clones and revenge of the sith

It destroyed the credibility of syat wars for ages and jj was needed to fix it which he did

But tlj ia bombing with the audience it seems

DarthRen wrote:

Gemini wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Gemini wrote:Well its not going down well on rotten tomatoes

This is what happens when you try to destroy everything you have built for a fanbase and "move forward" and then they want you to buy books on jedi and sith..

Thank god jj is coming back to fix this

@Gemini

What matters to them is the box office results. If it makes money, critics already likes that, that is a win for them.

@DarthRen

No its still not good audience reaction matters

Because if an aidience dislike it on mass it effects the sales of the next movie.

Look at TPM

People flocked in because they loved return of the jedi

But the mess of TPM effected attack of the clones and revenge of the sith

It destroyed the credibility of syat wars for ages and jj was needed to fix it which he did

But tlj ia bombing with the audience it seems

@Gemini

One site is not a measure and money is the key. For Disney most certainly.

This is the new era where SW is owned by Disney.

TPM was way worse, TLJ not anywhere close but JJ already pitched the idea and principal photography starts in June 2018, there is not much time to re-write it unless, they gonna move the release date or split the movie.

"So what do fans think? ComScore/Screen Engine reports a mindblowing five-out-of-five stars for the movie and a 90% overall positive with an 82% definite recommend. Forty five percent said that the Rian Johnson-directed movie came in above their expectations while close to 40% said they’ll the movie again in the theater. Huge. "

cherrylipstick wrote:I think that GA and lukewarm fans loved the movie much more than the passionate fanbase, but probably hardcore fans are more noisy and active on the internet.  
Or at least that's what I see with my friends and acquaintances, all those who weren't SW fans turned out enthusiastic about the movie.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

cherrylipstick wrote:I think that GA and lukewarm fans loved the movie much more than the passionate fanbase, but probably hardcore fans are more noisy and active on the internet.  
Or at least that's what I see with my friends and acquaintances, all those who weren't SW fans turned out enthusiastic about the movie.

@cherrylipstick

I find it especially interesting that lots of people who weren't previously aware of the Reylo dynamic now find it exciting. It's a new thing to them.

Whereas many Reylos are dissatisfied because... I don't know, we were too early? Thinking too far ahead? Feeling shortchanged for our investment? I don't know. Perhaps it's because we already saw this? For example, we called the Force bond two years ago, so now it was more like, "Yes...? AND...?" Expecting more character development to accompany it, while the non-Reylo crowd is buzzing, "Whoa! Force bond! Who would have thought?"

Darth Dingbat wrote:

cherrylipstick wrote:I think that GA and lukewarm fans loved the movie much more than the passionate fanbase, but probably hardcore fans are more noisy and active on the internet.  
Or at least that's what I see with my friends and acquaintances, all those who weren't SW fans turned out enthusiastic about the movie.

@cherrylipstick

I find it especially interesting that lots of people who weren't previously aware of the Reylo dynamic now find it exciting. It's a new thing to them.

Whereas many Reylos are dissatisfied because... I don't know, we were too early? Thinking too far ahead? Feeling shortchanged for our investment? I don't know. Perhaps it's because we already saw this? For example, we called the Force bond two years ago, so now it was more like, "Yes...? AND...?" Expecting more character development to accompany it, while the non-Reylo crowd is buzzing, "Whoa! Force bond! Who would have thought?"

Ynqve wrote:Lol why are you taking audience ratings on sites like Rotten Tomatoes seriously? Especially when the movie just got out? Not to mention the fact that from most reactions I've seen it's a movie that improves after a second or third viewing?

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

ZioRen wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

ZioRen wrote:The "Kylo needs to redeem himself thing" is true, but that doesn't mean he should be devoid of a catalyst or support. This is where I get confused with how a lot of people see this, that it's okay for Rey to give up on him and to not help him in the least. 

It was Luke being there and believing in him that finally helped Vader pull himself out of the dark and realize what was more important to him, and what was right. I don't get why it's a popular opinion that Kylo shouldn't get the same. Most people don't make it out of a bad place in their lives without something reminding them of why they should and some sort of support, "deserved" or not.

@ZioRen
Unfortunately this is something that happens in a lot of "redemption" stories. Famously Iroh and Zuko in Avatar. After Zuko stabs Aang and the gang in the back (nearly resulting in Aang's death!) and essentially has his uncle imprisoned Iroh refuses to even acknowledge his existence. Iroh spent a good deal of season two attempting to help his nephew, only to see Zuko turn his back on everything as soon as the familial acceptance and honour he craved were within reach. So yes, the second redemption denial is a necessary step. It wasn't that Iroh didn't care about Zuko (or that Luke truly believes Ben is gone... he surely doesn't), but the truth is only Ben can save his own soul. Only he ever could. No matter how relatable Kylo's position is -- no matter how much his family failed him -- only he can rise above it all in the end, forgive and let go. Ironically exactly what he tells Rey to do.

@FrolickingFizzgig

But even Zuko wasn't completely devoid of reminders about what he wanted in his life when he was in his regression path. He still had Mai, contentious as that relationship was for a point in time.

@ZioRen
They aren't the same character, though. You can't expect the story to play out the same way.

Mei wasn't really what I could ever call a relevant character. She's just kind of there. The story was all about Aang and Zuko. It's not comparable at all.

I could never say that Zuko didn't find his way back thanks to his own strength. His own desire to prove Iroh and those who turned their backs on him after the events in the catacombs wrong. That rejection (and the realization that he became more miserable than ever despite supposedly having what he wanted) were what really prompted his desire to make another choice.

rey09 wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

ZioRen wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

ZioRen wrote:The "Kylo needs to redeem himself thing" is true, but that doesn't mean he should be devoid of a catalyst or support. This is where I get confused with how a lot of people see this, that it's okay for Rey to give up on him and to not help him in the least. 

It was Luke being there and believing in him that finally helped Vader pull himself out of the dark and realize what was more important to him, and what was right. I don't get why it's a popular opinion that Kylo shouldn't get the same. Most people don't make it out of a bad place in their lives without something reminding them of why they should and some sort of support, "deserved" or not.

@ZioRen
Unfortunately this is something that happens in a lot of "redemption" stories. Famously Iroh and Zuko in Avatar. After Zuko stabs Aang and the gang in the back (nearly resulting in Aang's death!) and essentially has his uncle imprisoned Iroh refuses to even acknowledge his existence. Iroh spent a good deal of season two attempting to help his nephew, only to see Zuko turn his back on everything as soon as the familial acceptance and honour he craved were within reach. So yes, the second redemption denial is a necessary step. It wasn't that Iroh didn't care about Zuko (or that Luke truly believes Ben is gone... he surely doesn't), but the truth is only Ben can save his own soul. Only he ever could. No matter how relatable Kylo's position is -- no matter how much his family failed him -- only he can rise above it all in the end, forgive and let go. Ironically exactly what he tells Rey to do.

@FrolickingFizzgig

But even Zuko wasn't completely devoid of reminders about what he wanted in his life when he was in his regression path. He still had Mai, contentious as that relationship was for a point in time.

@ZioRen
They aren't the same character, though. You can't expect the story to play out the same way.

Mei wasn't really what I could ever call a relevant character. She's just kind of there. The story was all about Aang and Zuko. It's not comparable at all.

I could never say that Zuko didn't find his way back thanks to his own strength. His own desire to prove Iroh and those who turned their backs on him after the events in the catacombs wrong. That rejection (and the realization that he became more miserable than ever despite supposedly having what he wanted) were what really prompted his desire to make another choice.

@FrolickingFizzgig Omg I cannot stop thinking about Zuko after TLJ. I was fearing Kylo would pull a second season Zuko and it happened but yea, it does make sense. They weren't ready it for it when it came time. While Zuko was unhappy, I remember him learning about Avatar Roku being his great grandfather was the big moment for him (loved that reveal), made him realize just because he is FN doesn't mean he has to stick to their policies. I wonder how Kylo's epiphany will happen. I feel that any sort of callback to Vader/Anakin would be too cheesy. I really just want him to change because he wants it and not because of history. I'd rather see Harrison come back and "haunt" Kylo. We still haven't seen him grieve.

DarthRen wrote:

rey09 wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

ZioRen wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

ZioRen wrote:The "Kylo needs to redeem himself thing" is true, but that doesn't mean he should be devoid of a catalyst or support. This is where I get confused with how a lot of people see this, that it's okay for Rey to give up on him and to not help him in the least. 

It was Luke being there and believing in him that finally helped Vader pull himself out of the dark and realize what was more important to him, and what was right. I don't get why it's a popular opinion that Kylo shouldn't get the same. Most people don't make it out of a bad place in their lives without something reminding them of why they should and some sort of support, "deserved" or not.

@ZioRen
Unfortunately this is something that happens in a lot of "redemption" stories. Famously Iroh and Zuko in Avatar. After Zuko stabs Aang and the gang in the back (nearly resulting in Aang's death!) and essentially has his uncle imprisoned Iroh refuses to even acknowledge his existence. Iroh spent a good deal of season two attempting to help his nephew, only to see Zuko turn his back on everything as soon as the familial acceptance and honour he craved were within reach. So yes, the second redemption denial is a necessary step. It wasn't that Iroh didn't care about Zuko (or that Luke truly believes Ben is gone... he surely doesn't), but the truth is only Ben can save his own soul. Only he ever could. No matter how relatable Kylo's position is -- no matter how much his family failed him -- only he can rise above it all in the end, forgive and let go. Ironically exactly what he tells Rey to do.

@FrolickingFizzgig

But even Zuko wasn't completely devoid of reminders about what he wanted in his life when he was in his regression path. He still had Mai, contentious as that relationship was for a point in time.

@ZioRen
They aren't the same character, though. You can't expect the story to play out the same way.

Mei wasn't really what I could ever call a relevant character. She's just kind of there. The story was all about Aang and Zuko. It's not comparable at all.

I could never say that Zuko didn't find his way back thanks to his own strength. His own desire to prove Iroh and those who turned their backs on him after the events in the catacombs wrong. That rejection (and the realization that he became more miserable than ever despite supposedly having what he wanted) were what really prompted his desire to make another choice.

@FrolickingFizzgig Omg I cannot stop thinking about Zuko after TLJ. I was fearing Kylo would pull a second season Zuko and it happened but yea, it does make sense. They weren't ready it for it when it came time. While Zuko was unhappy, I remember him learning about Avatar Roku being his great grandfather was the big moment for him (loved that reveal), made him realize just because he is FN doesn't mean he has to stick to their policies. I wonder how Kylo's epiphany will happen. I feel that any sort of callback to Vader/Anakin would be too cheesy. I really just want him to change because he wants it and not because of history. I'd rather see Harrison come back and "haunt" Kylo. We still haven't seen him grieve.

@rey09

Han was mentioned but haven't seen Kylo dealing with his death that much. Maybe I just thought we'll see more grief than what was being shown.