Predictions for Episode 9

I hope.

Sometimes I wonder what it is that people even want out of SW. This goes for both those who love TLJ and those who hated it. When people project into Episode IX, it's always focused around more Jedi, lightsabers, space battles, and killing people. Maybe Rey turns to the DS, for the more ambitious. There are no character relationships, no connecting of storylines that make sense, no messages, no actual POINT to anything. Yet somehow SW is something that makes them feel good? People love the characters and the themes and the optimism, but none of that comes out in speculation.

What exactly did fans see in TLJ that was even more awesome than TFA, because it sure isn't coming out in discussion of the next movie. TLJ didn't kill SW, but if IX ends with the Resistance winning and restoring the Republic, Rey being the light side goddess with an army of new Jedi, and killing Kylo Ren the eeeeevil Supreme Leader, no one learned anything, the story hasn't progressed, we are still stuck in a loop, there is no closure, the ST didn't exist for any story reason, and the galaxy is in the same place it was before. I am just so befuddled as to why people love these new movies so much when they aren't actually asking for anything challenging, or that is otherwise related to the past two episodes, in future installments.

californiagirl wrote:Sometimes I wonder what it is that people even want out of SW. This goes for both those who love TLJ and those who hated it. When people project into Episode IX, it's always focused around more Jedi, lightsabers, space battles, and killing people. Maybe Rey turns to the DS, for the more ambitious. There are no character relationships, no connecting of storylines that make sense, no messages, no actual POINT to anything. Yet somehow SW is something that makes them feel good? People love the characters and the themes and the optimism, but none of that comes out in speculation.

What exactly did fans see in TLJ that was even more awesome than TFA, because it sure isn't coming out in discussion of the next movie. TLJ didn't kill SW, but if IX ends with the Resistance winning and restoring the Republic, Rey being the light side goddess with an army of new Jedi, and killing Kylo Ren the eeeeevil Supreme Leader, no one learned anything, the story hasn't progressed, we are still stuck in a loop, there is no closure, the ST didn't exist for any story reason, and the galaxy is in the same place it was before. I am just so befuddled as to why people love these new movies so much when they aren't actually asking for anything challenging, or that is otherwise related to the past two episodes, in future installments.

@californiagirl

It is human nature to not like change, especially if it is something that goes against one's supposed best interest. Also fear of the unknown is a biggie, which is funny because:

Starliteprism wrote:

californiagirl wrote:Sometimes I wonder what it is that people even want out of SW. This goes for both those who love TLJ and those who hated it. When people project into Episode IX, it's always focused around more Jedi, lightsabers, space battles, and killing people. Maybe Rey turns to the DS, for the more ambitious. There are no character relationships, no connecting of storylines that make sense, no messages, no actual POINT to anything. Yet somehow SW is something that makes them feel good? People love the characters and the themes and the optimism, but none of that comes out in speculation.

What exactly did fans see in TLJ that was even more awesome than TFA, because it sure isn't coming out in discussion of the next movie. TLJ didn't kill SW, but if IX ends with the Resistance winning and restoring the Republic, Rey being the light side goddess with an army of new Jedi, and killing Kylo Ren the eeeeevil Supreme Leader, no one learned anything, the story hasn't progressed, we are still stuck in a loop, there is no closure, the ST didn't exist for any story reason, and the galaxy is in the same place it was before. I am just so befuddled as to why people love these new movies so much when they aren't actually asking for anything challenging, or that is otherwise related to the past two episodes, in future installments.

@californiagirl

It is human nature to not like change, especially if it is something that goes against one's supposed best interest. Also fear of the unknown is a biggie, which is funny because:

@Starliteprism

Vader's sacrifice is one of the hold-up-on-a-pedestal moments of SW, and we would all be fine if it was made moot by Vader having an evil legacy in evil SL Kylo Ren? That is what would actually kill SW. So much bafflement...

In My worst hypothesis Kylo is redeemed. Rey tells him she loves him. After a minute he dies to save her. Type Titanic 2. IThe same of from Rouge one , someone dies to save another. Also Battelfront 2. For Disney this is happy end ?. Let's make the Beast die. I think there is already too much hatred and pain around us. Seeing a fairytale to kill his redeemed prince makes me sick.

californiagirl wrote:Sometimes I wonder what it is that people even want out of SW. This goes for both those who love TLJ and those who hated it. When people project into Episode IX, it's always focused around more Jedi, lightsabers, space battles, and killing people. Maybe Rey turns to the DS, for the more ambitious. There are no character relationships, no connecting of storylines that make sense, no messages, no actual POINT to anything. Yet somehow SW is something that makes them feel good? People love the characters and the themes and the optimism, but none of that comes out in speculation.

What exactly did fans see in TLJ that was even more awesome than TFA, because it sure isn't coming out in discussion of the next movie. TLJ didn't kill SW, but if IX ends with the Resistance winning and restoring the Republic, Rey being the light side goddess with an army of new Jedi, and killing Kylo Ren the eeeeevil Supreme Leader, no one learned anything, the story hasn't progressed, we are still stuck in a loop, there is no closure, the ST didn't exist for any story reason, and the galaxy is in the same place it was before. I am just so befuddled as to why people love these new movies so much when they aren't actually asking for anything challenging, or that is otherwise related to the past two episodes, in future installments.

@californiagirl

This is more commentary on TFA than TLJ, but I find myself scratching my head a bit with the "TFA Was A New Hope Redux and Therefore Unoriginal" comments because... well, maybe I'm giving J.J. too much credit, and maybe I'm just reading too deeply into things, but I'm thinking there's built-in film meta there that's trying to demonstrate that that's precisely the point. It's the same, because the same thing will keep on happening if this doesn't end differently this time, and if balance isn't actually reached (because Anakin killing the Emperor wasn't precisely the definition of balance). And the one very marked thing that's different this time around, despite the other story similarities, is that we have a dark force user and a light force use who are falling in love with each other. So the different resolution obviously has something to do with them, and it probably doesn't involve one simply killing the other.

about Reylo babys


they make me smile these theories, I'm glad to hear that there are other people like us

@giaciak2

it would be the most tragic of the Star Wars finals. nooo
however .... but almost all the Star Wars finals are bittersweet or am I wrong?

In any case, too many deaths in this trilogy, now that Carry is gone, Leia will not be here anymore and I wonder, they wanted to eliminate her if Carry was still alive? They said that this last episode was the moment of triumph for Carry

Now she's gone I really hope they will not dare to kill Kylo as a replacement because it would be ignoble and incorrect .....

nickandnora wrote:

californiagirl wrote:Sometimes I wonder what it is that people even want out of SW. This goes for both those who love TLJ and those who hated it. When people project into Episode IX, it's always focused around more Jedi, lightsabers, space battles, and killing people. Maybe Rey turns to the DS, for the more ambitious. There are no character relationships, no connecting of storylines that make sense, no messages, no actual POINT to anything. Yet somehow SW is something that makes them feel good? People love the characters and the themes and the optimism, but none of that comes out in speculation.

What exactly did fans see in TLJ that was even more awesome than TFA, because it sure isn't coming out in discussion of the next movie. TLJ didn't kill SW, but if IX ends with the Resistance winning and restoring the Republic, Rey being the light side goddess with an army of new Jedi, and killing Kylo Ren the eeeeevil Supreme Leader, no one learned anything, the story hasn't progressed, we are still stuck in a loop, there is no closure, the ST didn't exist for any story reason, and the galaxy is in the same place it was before. I am just so befuddled as to why people love these new movies so much when they aren't actually asking for anything challenging, or that is otherwise related to the past two episodes, in future installments.

@californiagirl

This is more commentary on TFA than TLJ, but I find myself scratching my head a bit with the "TFA Was A New Hope Redux and Therefore Unoriginal" comments because... well, maybe I'm giving J.J. too much credit, and maybe I'm just reading too deeply into things, but I'm thinking there's built-in film meta there that's trying to demonstrate that that's precisely the point. It's the same, because the same thing will keep on happening if this doesn't end differently this time, and if balance isn't actually reached (because Anakin killing the Emperor wasn't precisely the definition of balance). And the one very marked thing that's different this time around, despite the other story similarities, is that we have a dark force user and a light force use who are falling in love with each other. So the different resolution obviously has something to do with them, and it probably doesn't involve one simply killing the other.

@nickandnora

It didn't occur to me until recently how meta TFA was. It's glaringly obvious in TLJ, that was obviously the entire point of the movie, that we the audience need to move on along with the characters in the the SW galaxy. It's a little awkward because TFA wants to have it both ways. It really does want the unabashed OT worship, and maybe any criticism it had with the way things are done, from the Jedi to the Republic to whichever fascist regime they are on now, didn't come out clearly enough. And yet if they hadn't done that, TLJ wouldn't have as much of an impact. This is why certain fans are mad (never mind that these are probably the same people who were trashing TFA and its fans until the week TLJ released). It's hard to subvert expectations if you don't play to expectations in the first place.

It's telling that Kylo Ren was the first thing in the ST to do this, showing his emotional instability, conflict in the force, even unmasking him halfway through and having some rather.... interesting.... interactions with the heroine in his very first appearance in the saga. Really I wish this was all over and it could be 10 years from now, when the ST looks better in retrospect and we are not arguing so viciously over it anymore.

It's telling that Kylo Ren was the first thing in the ST to do this, showing his emotional instability, conflict in the force, even unmasking him halfway through and having some rather.... interesting.... interactions with the heroine in his very first appearance in the saga. Really I wish this was all over and it could be 10 years from now, when the ST looks better in retrospect and we are not arguing so viciously over it anymore.

@californiagirl

I was saying to my husband after watching TFA for the third time recently, that it struck me this time around that this films contains a type of scene that I don't believe I've EVER seen before, and that is a scene where the masked villain confesses, to whatever powers he believes in, that he's having trouble resisting the call to the light. Like, I think when that scene first dropped we were all still processing Kylo Ren as the bad guy, and that he was Han and Leia's son, that the scene didn't really resonate on the levels it really should have. But seriously, a scene where the villain says: "Please help me, I'm trying so hard not to be good and it's against my very nature." Honestly, that is freaking powerful, and extremely unique.  

This is why I was saying awhile ago that while The Force Awakens is the film with more levity, any of the scenes with Kylo, or with Kylo and Rey are heavy. J.J. knows where the meat of the story is.

Has anyone paid attention to The Rule of Three for the ST and TLJ specifically? Because we have two times each for our Force pair where they are offered something they decline

TFA: Rey is offered 60 portions when she's always on the verge of starving in exchange for giving up BB-8 to Plutt for the First Order's reward. She's briefly tempted but declines for a variety of reasons which demonstrate her strength of character. BB-8 is her first real friend and possibly she remembers what her parents did in the exact same situation. Kylo is offered the chance by Han to "come home" (return to the Light) and declines because he's convinced it's too late for him and that he needs to be in the Darkness to fulfill the destiny of the family legacy/bloodline. He in turn makes an offer to Rey to teach her, which she outright rejects and uses the moment instead to thump him with her Force powers. There's also a vision, which is the first time Rey sees Ben/Kylo and experiences the events of the past which tore each of them from their childhood homes and shows the two of them interacting in the future.

TLJ: In this situation, Ben and Rey make an offer to each other which they both reject. He's made the offer (sort of) by Snoke to kill Rey/destroy the Light and cement his place in the Darkside. Which he rejects by instead killing Snoke to protect her. She offers him again the chance to "come home" with her (return to the Light), which he rejects and makes a counteroffer that she instead join him as rules of a new galactic order/Prom King and Prom Queen. As with being offered 60 portions, being offered belonging/companionship is something she's hungry for. But she turns it down for a variety of reasons, starting with protecting her friends and it being a path she can't follow Ben down for ethical/moral reasons. So they each extend an offer to one another based on the vision, which in turn falls through and they go back to their respective political/military/spiritual sides. There's also at the center, another vision. This time it's one they experience together through their bond in the Force. Not shown on screen or explained out in the dialogue but something powerful enough that he betrays Snoke to protect her and she breaks with Luke to travel into enemy territory on an ill-fated rescue mission which has game changing consequences.

So next round, will it be the Rule of Three will there be another vision and another offer? What will be in the vision and what will be the offers? How will they act? For her it would be accepting something she's hungry for (emotionally and spiritually) without compromising her moral code. For him, it would have to be another offer to Return to the Light/the Truth of His Family which he accepts. Question is, will the outcome be positive or negative? Because right now you see a lot of fans arguing "F**k him, he had two offers and rejected him." Which is a perfectly reasonable attitude to have in real life with real people. But for fiction, there's the repetition of something Three times. And we've seen them go through these trials separately and together two times now. So Third time's the charm as we say in English?

Also Rule of Three references in TLJ - biggest one is Luke's three lessons, two for Rey and one for Ben. And I'm pretty sure the scene where Paige is trying to get the remote control to drop the bombs, it's 2 times and the 3rd time it almost lands out of her grasp before she catches it and takes out the Dreadnaught. Any other major ones people have noticed?

Separate from the actual topic at hand, I just thought of something that might be a small amount of support to my idea/prediction that Ben Solo is going to pen the new Jedi texts, and that they're basically just going to be the whole Star Wars saga as we know it. It's this line, to Rey:

"You have no place in this story."

I mean... did anyone else - even while loving this whole part - find that one word (story) kind of... odd? It's pretty meta for a moment like this. And why couldn't he simply say, "You have no place in any of this" or something similar. But that one word - "story" - seems rather deliberate, and borderline out of place, almost like Rian was trying to shoehorn it in there.

@nickandnora

It's a beautiful idea, I approve it more than willingly. Ben is the most educated from what we know. He could write the texts as you say and also give him the title "star wars" telling the story, how it all started,
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.......
it would be epic in style the lord of the rings

snufkin wrote:Has anyone paid attention to The Rule of Three for the ST and TLJ specifically? Because we have two times each for our Force pair where they are offered something they decline

TFA: Rey is offered 60 portions when she's always on the verge of starving in exchange for giving up BB-8 to Plutt for the First Order's reward. She's briefly tempted but declines for a variety of reasons which demonstrate her strength of character. BB-8 is her first real friend and possibly she remembers what her parents did in the exact same situation. Kylo is offered the chance by Han to "come home" (return to the Light) and declines because he's convinced it's too late for him and that he needs to be in the Darkness to fulfill the destiny of the family legacy/bloodline. He in turn makes an offer to Rey to teach her, which she outright rejects and uses the moment instead to thump him with her Force powers. There's also a vision, which is the first time Rey sees Ben/Kylo and experiences the events of the past which tore each of them from their childhood homes and shows the two of them interacting in the future.

TLJ: In this situation, Ben and Rey make an offer to each other which they both reject. He's made the offer (sort of) by Snoke to kill Rey/destroy the Light and cement his place in the Darkside. Which he rejects by instead killing Snoke to protect her. She offers him again the chance to "come home" with her (return to the Light), which he rejects and makes a counteroffer that she instead join him as rules of a new galactic order/Prom King and Prom Queen. As with being offered 60 portions, being offered belonging/companionship is something she's hungry for. But she turns it down for a variety of reasons, starting with protecting her friends and it being a path she can't follow Ben down for ethical/moral reasons. So they each extend an offer to one another based on the vision, which in turn falls through and they go back to their respective political/military/spiritual sides. There's also at the center, another vision. This time it's one they experience together through their bond in the Force. Not shown on screen or explained out in the dialogue but something powerful enough that he betrays Snoke to protect her and she breaks with Luke to travel into enemy territory on an ill-fated rescue mission which has game changing consequences.

So next round, will it be the Rule of Three will there be another vision and another offer? What will be in the vision and what will be the offers? How will they act? For her it would be accepting something she's hungry for (emotionally and spiritually) without compromising her moral code. For him, it would have to be another offer to Return to the Light/the Truth of His Family which he accepts. Question is, will the outcome be positive or negative? Because right now you see a lot of fans arguing "F**k him, he had two offers and rejected him." Which is a perfectly reasonable attitude to have in real life with real people. But for fiction, there's the repetition of something Three times. And we've seen them go through these trials separately and together two times now. So Third time's the charm as we say in English?

Also Rule of Three references in TLJ - biggest one is Luke's three lessons, two for Rey and one for Ben. And I'm pretty sure the scene where Paige is trying to get the remote control to drop the bombs, it's 2 times and the 3rd time it almost lands out of her grasp before she catches it and takes out the Dreadnaught. Any other major ones people have noticed?

@snufkin

Yes, I notice the Rule of 3s.

In TLJ, I think "Punch it!" might have been used three times, Poe, then Connix, and technically Chewie "punches" a porg out of the way.




Also, I think maybe the rule of 3s extends over the three movies, or will do.
In TFA, Finn states, "We need cover." followed by, "Too much cover", when he and Rey are escaping off the planet of Jakku.
In TLJ, Finn states, "We need cover." speaking to Rose as they make their escape on the fathier in Canto Bight, followed by, "Too much cover!" as they are being smacked in the face with fairy lights going down a little alley way.
So, with that current trend, I know one bingo square of mine is going to include Finn stating this in the last installment, no matter the context.

Also with the deleted scene in the upcoming dvd/blu-ray release of TLJ, the caretakers were not too happy with their interactions with Rey, first with her "blaster going off", then her hacking at a huge rock and knocking a wheelbarrow out of one of the caretakers hands below, and finally Rey going to the rescue and literally gatecrashing a caretakers party.

@Starliteprism That gif! I just walked by a car parked by my workplace the other day and they already have this merchandise available



I'm sure I'll notice more 3s when the home video release finally comes out, but yes "we need cover!" is one for Finn.

snufkin wrote:@Starliteprism That gif! I just walked by a car parked by my workplace the other day and they already have this merchandise available



I'm sure I'll notice more 3s when the home video release finally comes out, but yes "we need cover!" is one for Finn.

@snufkin

Yea, totally going to wait for a price drop on one of those porgs. Haha!

@Starliteprism There's another car I walk by covered with stickers about it being a Jedi vehicle and Jedi Academy graduate. It's hard to not snicker b/c I keep thinking about what happened to Luke's school and how he tells Rey it was mostly just about satisfying his own ego than anything else.

So another thing with the Rule of Three? It's prevalent in Fairy Tales. Part of why this topic occurred to me is reading comments from the angry fans on the Internet who keep claiming that Kylo is irredeemable and going to die in the next chapter b/c he's turned down 2 offers to Come Back. They keep confusing principles you'd adhere to with people in real life versus recognizing characters in narrative fiction who are pretty solidly built on the Bible, folklore, and mythology.

Wikipedia wrote:Vladimir Propp, in his Morphology of the Folk Tale, concluded that any of the elements in a folktale could be negated twice so that it would repeat thrice.[16] This is common not only in the Russian tales he studied but throughout folk tales and fairy tales: most commonly, perhaps, in that the youngest son is usually the third, although fairy tales often display the rule of three in the most blatant form. A small sample of the latter includes:

Rumpelstiltskin spins thrice for the heroine and lets her guess his name thrice over a period of three days.
In East of the Sun and West of the Moon, the heroine receives three gifts while she is searching for her lost husband; when she finds where he is prisoner, she must use them to thrice bribe her way to the hero (the first two times she was unable to tell her story because he lay in a drugged sleep).
In Brother and Sister, Brother is transformed into a deer when he drinks from the third stream that their wicked stepmother enchanted, and when Sister is killed by the same stepmother, she visits her child's room thrice, being caught and restored the third time.
In The Dancing Water, the Singing Apple, and the Speaking Bird, a woman says she will bear the king three marvelous children; when they reappear, their envious aunts attempt to kill them by sending them on three quests, after the three marvelous things of the title.
In The Silent Princess, a prince breaks a peasant woman's pitcher thrice, and is cursed; when he finds the title princess, he must persuade her to speak thrice.
In The Love for Three Oranges, the hero picks three magical oranges, and only with the third is he able to keep the woman who springs out of it.

snufkin wrote:@Starliteprism There's another car I walk by covered with stickers about it being a Jedi vehicle and Jedi Academy graduate. It's hard to not snicker b/c I keep thinking about what happened to Luke's school and how he tells Rey it was mostly just about satisfying his own ego than anything else.

So another thing with the Rule of Three? It's prevalent in Fairy Tales. Part of why this topic occurred to me is reading comments from the angry fans on the Internet who keep claiming that Kylo is irredeemable and going to die in the next chapter b/c he's turned down 2 offers to Come Back. They keep confusing principles you'd adhere to with people in real life versus recognizing characters in narrative fiction who are pretty solidly built on the Bible, folklore, and mythology.

Wikipedia wrote:Vladimir Propp, in his Morphology of the Folk Tale, concluded that any of the elements in a folktale could be negated twice so that it would repeat thrice.[16] This is common not only in the Russian tales he studied but throughout folk tales and fairy tales: most commonly, perhaps, in that the youngest son is usually the third, although fairy tales often display the rule of three in the most blatant form. A small sample of the latter includes:

Rumpelstiltskin spins thrice for the heroine and lets her guess his name thrice over a period of three days.
In East of the Sun and West of the Moon, the heroine receives three gifts while she is searching for her lost husband; when she finds where he is prisoner, she must use them to thrice bribe her way to the hero (the first two times she was unable to tell her story because he lay in a drugged sleep).
In Brother and Sister, Brother is transformed into a deer when he drinks from the third stream that their wicked stepmother enchanted, and when Sister is killed by the same stepmother, she visits her child's room thrice, being caught and restored the third time.
In The Dancing Water, the Singing Apple, and the Speaking Bird, a woman says she will bear the king three marvelous children; when they reappear, their envious aunts attempt to kill them by sending them on three quests, after the three marvelous things of the title.
In The Silent Princess, a prince breaks a peasant woman's pitcher thrice, and is cursed; when he finds the title princess, he must persuade her to speak thrice.
In The Love for Three Oranges, the hero picks three magical oranges, and only with the third is he able to keep the woman who springs out of it.

@snufkin

Haha...that would make me chuckle as well.

Personally, I am attracted to the number 3, but numerology-wise, I was born on a 30th and you can add 3+0 to bring it to 3, single digits and read up on interpretations and such. Overall, I am a 9, but again, that's like 3 sets of 3s, init? :-p

Thanks for sharing the various insights of threes. It's fun stuff to think about. Also, genie usually grants three wishes as well and think there are three types of wishes they cannot grant, like killing, granting more wishes, and becoming a god, etc.

@Starliteprism Oh yeah, it's always 3 wishes granted in those type of stories. Usually meant to signify that people first act out of impulse/foolishness before gaining wisdom and making the right decision. Another one is that we've had 2 times Ben has made Rey and offer and 2 times that he's had the chance to escape from both the First Order and the legacy/bloodline he believes he has to be faithful to. Like Rey, he's held back by the belief that he will only be important/have a place in the story but a certain family connection. So if they're following this type of pattern, logic dictates that we will have one more chance each in IX where he makes her an offer (that she accepts) and he, in turn, will finally break from the FO/Vader's legacy and 'return.'

there's no two without three . I hope that Rey accepts, but Kylo must become Ben Solo again

Teo oswald wrote:there's no two without three . I hope that Rey accepts, but Kylo must become Ben Solo again

@Teo oswald

Hm, I disagree- he can't become that boy again. Let the past die. He needs to move forward...accept both sides.
Kylo Ren and Ben Solo are the same person for me (he doesn't have a personality disorder- does he? Not that we know of ). Not to say he shouldn't use his birth name again but in character they are one and the same.

snufkin wrote:@Starliteprism Oh yeah, it's always 3 wishes granted in those type of stories. Usually meant to signify that people first act out of impulse/foolishness before gaining wisdom and making the right decision. Another one is that we've had 2 times Ben has made Rey and offer and 2 times that he's had the chance to escape from both the First Order and the legacy/bloodline he believes he has to be faithful to. Like Rey, he's held back by the belief that he will only be important/have a place in the story but a certain family connection. So if they're following this type of pattern, logic dictates that we will have one more chance each in IX where he makes her an offer (that she accepts) and he, in turn, will finally break from the FO/Vader's legacy and 'return.'

@snufkin

Love it!

Night Huntress wrote:

Teo oswald wrote:there's no two without three . I hope that Rey accepts, but Kylo must become Ben Solo again

@Teo oswald

Hm, I disagree- he can't become that boy again. Let the past die. He needs to move forward...accept both sides.
Kylo Ren and Ben Solo are the same person for me (he doesn't have a personality disorder- does he? Not that we know of ). Not to say he shouldn't use his birth name again but in character they are one and the same.

@Night Huntress

Maybe not so much "let the past die", but let go of the negative connotations and move forward with the lesson/s learnt. If you lose sight of the past entirely, that's when we can end up falling into the trap of not learning from previous lessons. But totally agree that he can't revert to being that boy, nor would we want him to.

Starliteprism wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:

Teo oswald wrote:there's no two without three . I hope that Rey accepts, but Kylo must become Ben Solo again

@Teo oswald

Hm, I disagree- he can't become that boy again. Let the past die. He needs to move forward...accept both sides.
Kylo Ren and Ben Solo are the same person for me (he doesn't have a personality disorder- does he? Not that we know of   ). Not to say he shouldn't use his birth name again but in character they are one and the same.

@Night Huntress

Maybe not so much "let the past die", but let go of the negative connotations and move forward with the lesson/s learnt. If you lose sight of the past entirely, that's when we can end up falling into the trap of not learning from previous lessons. But totally agree that he can't revert to being that boy, nor would we want him to.

@Starliteprism

yeah, true - I haven't meant that literally. But I often read people writing about Kylo/Ben as if they are two different persons- like he really has a split personality. He was always Ben- Kylo Ren is kind of a twisted "artist name" but inside he never was someone else. That's why I have difficulties with the wording "he has to become Ben again..." he was always Ben Solo- even committing patricide and behaving like an idiot on Crait.
He needs to evolve... so I agree - he must let go of the past. Not "killing it" but learning from his mistakes.

Night Huntress wrote:

Teo oswald wrote:there's no two without three . I hope that Rey accepts, but Kylo must become Ben Solo again

@Teo oswald

Hm, I disagree- he can't become that boy again. Let the past die. He needs to move forward...accept both sides.
Kylo Ren and Ben Solo are the same person for me (he doesn't have a personality disorder- does he? Not that we know of ). Not to say he shouldn't use his birth name again but in character they are one and the same.

@Night Huntress

What you say is logical and I share it . So Rey will also have to accept Kylo Ren who is a part of Ben Solo right?