ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

@Saracene

I agree with you about the fact that TFA was about Ben & Han's relationship, letting his relationship with Leia aside. Still, I think that there are some elements that suggests he might have had a close relationship with her and that this affects both of them:

I. From Ben's POV:

The movie doesn't provide so many clues about how Ben feels toward Leia but subtle clues in the novelization provide an interesting insight:

[b]1. "The elements align, Kylo Ren"[/b]

“The elements align, Kylo Ren. You alone are caught in the winds of the storm. Your bond is not just to Vader, but to Skywalker himself. Leia…”
“There is no need for concern.” Despite the Supreme Leader’s cautioning, Ren’s assurance remained unbounded. “Together we will destroy the Resistance - and the last Jedi.
==> I find it interesting that Kylo dare cut the Supreme Leader just when Snoke is going to talk about Leia and try to turn away the conversation by focusing on Luke: is he angry at her? is he shaken? One thing is clear: Leia is a topic to avoid!


2. "We miss you!" vs. "Your mother misses you!"

“No, it’s not.” Halfway across the walkay now, Han continued to move forward, smiling. “Never too late for the truth. Leave here with me. Come home.” Without the slightest trace of malice or deception, he cast a dagger. “Your mother misses you.”
A strange sensation touched the younger man’s cheeks. Something long forgotten. Dampness. Tears.

==> Even if Han said "we miss you!" in the movie, the novelization makes it clear that:
a. Han is aware that Leia is emotionally more important to Ben than he is
b. Thinking of his mother shakens Ben and bring him long forgotten emotions

3. Adam Driver's acting suggests that Ben may be the one who reached out

We all know how good Adam Driver is with microexpressions:

Right before the camera cuts, Kylo's eyes widen and his mouth drops as if his mind went suddently somewhere else or he was reahing out to someone. Immediately after, Leia's reaction suggests that she didn't feel Han's death immediately when he was stabbed but only when Kylo reached out to her through the Force. She drops on a chair only after she shares this  Force connection with her son. When the camera cuts again, Kylo seems so profoundly focused on the connection that he didn't notice what would happen to him next with Chewie's bowcaster. I really ask myself whether Leia only felt her son's grief or he sort of informed her through the Force.

II. From Leia's POV:

1. "I know everytime you look at me, you're reminded of him!" - "Do you think I want to forget him? I want him back!" [/i]
==> The novelization makes it even more clear why Han avoid Leia: “I didn’t plan on coming here,” he explained. “I know whenever you look at me, you’re reminded of him. So I stayed away.” This is obviously very painful for Leia to be reminded of Ben.


2. "I should have never sent him away! That's when I lost him..."
==> she might have said "that's where we lost him" or directly "that's were I lost you both"; Instead, she stresses the fact she is the one who lost him


3."There's nothing we could have done. There's too much Vader in him!" - "There is still light in him, I know it"
==> With this insistent tone, Space Mom shows her determination not to give up the fight for her son's soul. Let's remember that when Luke was so devastated after Ben Kenobi's death, she told him "There's nothing you could have done!".


4. "If you see our son...bring him home!"

==> This is no request. She literally begs Han to go after Ben and Carrie's acting make it clear how painful it is for her to ask such favor to Han so this suggests that her need to have her son back is obviously the strongest

5. This Leia/Rey moment!

Leia is walking slowly toward Rey as if she was seeing a ghost.

She seems completely unaware anymore of what happen around her including of Chewie walking in her direction. She even doesn't notice him, only looking at Rey and wlaking slowly toward her. J.J. Abrams said it was a mistake when he was reproached for having Leia hug Rey instead of Chewie but I honestly think it was intentional. More interesting, he clearly said that Leia & Rey never ever met prior to TFA.

Still, the novelization makes it clearly that Rey goes "instinctively" toward Leia the same way Leia appears sort of drawn to her!

And Rey blinks so much while approaching Leia as if she sort of recongizes her but can't put her finger from where she would knows her or perhaps she saw a younger version of Leia in Kylo's mind?

When Leia takes Rey in her arms, one can hear the melody "Torn apart" in the background. This is the same melody that was used when Ben & Leia were briefly connected through the Force. I might be wrong but this may suggest that Leia can feel her son through Rey because let's keep in mind that this unknown young woman was in close contact with her son through the Force within the last hours. The way she's pulling Rey tightly against her chest and burries her head in her neck suggests that Leia feels a strong emotion and give herself into her emotion, which is completely untypical from her.

I would put my money that Space Mom probably feels a presence that she hadn't felt since...

6. "Your friend is gonna be just fine"

Then, there is this deleted scene "Finn will be fine". I think that if the scene had been inserted in the final editing, it would have been just after Rey & Leia hug and just before R2-D2's wakes up. To me, Rey & Leia's hug makes also sense because they not only grieve Han, they are certainly worried about Kylo's condition too since he's gravely injured.

In the deleted scene, Rey's face become very anxious and then relax only after she hears the doctor say that Finn will be fine but also after she hears heartbeats. As the scene reminds a lot of E.T's death scene and that Kylo & Rey's interractions were full of heartbeats, I assume these heartbeat sounds to be Kylo's. That's why, I think that Rey probably felt Kylo's heartbeat stop for a while and finally beat again.


Logically,the scene with the droids would have followed. Just after R2 wakes up, they go to find Leia with camera cutting to this shot:

If Rey could feel Kylo dying for a while, I assume that Leia could definitely feel it too! So she probably felt that she was close to lose her only son.

And this is where our ladies stand, obviously not next to the medical bay where Finn is supposed to be. I ask myself whether or not Leia is this figure in front of the screen behind Rey in the deleted scene while Rey is obviously standing next to a pillar:


Even if few was said about their relationship, all these subtle clues makes me think that Ben/Kylo and Leia's interactions will be emotional rather than bitter

@Darth Dingbat

Well, I take all these facts cautiously but still all the rumors about Leia in Episode VIII suggest that she'll be in grave danger. What's more, it makes a lot of sense that one important character would go down in Episode VIII because this happened in all Star Wars movies. The Star Wars franchise is all about the "Skywalker curse" with all characters related/close to the Skywalker family dying and/or experiencing pain:

Source: http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=https://pics.onsizzle.com/Facebook-Good-advice-74df7e.png&imgrefurl=https://onsizzle.com/i/advice-facebook-good-advice-how-to-151158&h=551&w=500&tbnid=UcHoIUcfGKvnVM:&vet=1&tbnh=90&tbnw=82&docid=ZyFQLBT7j-ytGM&usg=__QhQFv1QORZmZzYPx26L2qNRgZrc=&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjipOusmpfRAhVGQBQKHVxdDxkQ9QEIIDAB
Episode I: Father figure

Episode II: Mother

Episode III: Wife

Episode IV: Father figure

Episode V: Husband (this is a special case since Han actually didn't die but he experienced near-death since could have died in this process)

Episode VI: Father

Episode VII: Father/Father figure


To sum up:
- With the exception of Episode V, all Star Wars movies concluded with the death of an important/beloved character from the light side
- With the exception of Padme, all the characters who previously died were middle-age/old father and mother figures and Padme wasn't only Anakin's wife: she was also Luke & Leia's mother.
- All characters had a familial bond (Anakin/Shmi; Luke/Vader) or an emotional bond (Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon; Obi-Wan/Padme; Luke/Obi-Wan: Rey & Finn/Han) with the person who witnessed their death or was responsible for their death (Ben/Han; Vader/Obi-Wan)

If the screenwiters follow that scheme, either Luke or Leia shall die in Episode VIII. Like Harrison Ford said, Han's destiny "was resolved in a powerful and effective way", which  implies that his death was meant to bring something for the future. Obviously, the screenwriters wouldn't kill an important character just for drama but to serve the plot. In most of the case, death scene in Star Wars are also an intimate/emotional moment between two characters and/or are decisive for the remaining character. I don't see to what extent Luke or Leia's death would profoundly affect Rey's character journey (unless Rey would be the one to kill Luke) or provide the viewer with an emotional moment between two characters. So, if Luke or Leia must die, I think that Kylo will be the one to witness it and I rather imagine an intimate death scene than a sudden death scene. That's why, it makes sense to me that Leia would be the one to go down in Episode VIII, even more because her death could be decisive both for Kylo's character journey and also for Luke's return as an active part of the fight against the FO, unless they decided to have both Skywalker twins killed.

For the sequel trilogy, the screenwriters might follow the same scheme as the prequel trilogy:
Episode I/Episode VII: Father
Episode II/Episode VIII: Mother
Episode III/Episode IX: Husband/Wife
BUT in the case of Episode IX, I imagine Kylo & Rey both experiencing near-death like Anakin & Padme did in Episode III, their Force connection allowing them to survive somehow, making Episode IX put an end to the "Skywalker curse". This is why it is so important that Kylo must be redeemed by the end: there was too much loss, pain & sacrifice in this family in a broad sense. Colin Trevorrow said that Rey is important in the entire galaxy, not only in the context of TFA: what if he meant that - like Belle - she is the one who, with Ben, will put an end to this long-time "curse"?

Oscar Isaac said that "Episode VIII is darker than Episode VII but not so dark", knowing that Han's death (+ Rey tapping in the DS later) was already a dark moment in Episode VII.  So a death scene seems very likely, something else adding some dark tone also seems likely but despite all this darkness there still would be some hope by the end of the movie.

rey09 wrote:Ugh idk seems like whatever happens, Leia is going to die, which is going to make this story so much more depressing. Before, Kylo would carry the burden of killing Han, but would have his mother there for him in the end. Now he's going to lose his mother, and Kylo's going to feel guilty about that as well. I guess Luke will have to be there for him. Yeah Rey would be his ultimate means to get to the light side, but once he's there, it would've been good for family to be there on that side waiting for him, someone who loved him as a child. Ugh it's gonna be so heartbreaking!! It would be pretty perfect if they had good footage of Carrie standing and saying emotional stuff, I'm guessing they could Force ghost that.

@rey09


I don't think it will be only Rey. Couple of events like Snoke's bertrayal which people seems to omit but Snoke already wanted to bertray him during his duel with Rey. Leia, Han's death guilt and Rey. Combine these things and Kylo will get redemption arc. Snoke wants Rey to be his replacement for Kylo because she's stronger in Force and better to work with. Kylo is good but Rey is powerful and he might want to exploit that and Rey might be prone to Dark Side, much like Kylo/Ben to Light Side temptation.

@reylo1992

I also believe that in episode 8 something can happen to Leia. I did not think about the possibility of death, but I thought of a kidnapping, I came to this thinking based on the film Sanbiki no Samurai (1964), one of the films used by Rian as inspiration. In this film we see the kidnapping of an important magistrate's daughter, we also see how a loyal servant can become disillusioned with his master and betray him in the name of honor.
And on the issue of bonding the Force, the other day I read a translation of a TFA book in Chinese that brought some interesting revelations:

When Rey can read Kylo's mind:
"Rey can feel Kylo Ren using the force on her, searching through her mind. She concentrates on the connection between Kylo Ren and her, trying to push him out with all her might. Scene filled with so many different emotions. She felt her anger and pain, mostly of which are fear. "

When she manages to defeat Kylo in the forest using the lightsaber:
"Rey knew Kylo Ren could not hold up any longer, she took the chance, and striked at him repeatedly. (...) Rey striked again, with each strike, she became more and more driven with fury. Rey could tell, she has the power to kill him then, and stop his evil intentions. "

http://reylogarbagechute.tumblr.com/post/139720830973/whisperingmoonlight1010-from-reylos-fans-in

I see in these excerpts little evidence of how the connection helped Rey to defeat Kylo, how she managed to feel what he felt ... and how interesting, he felt not only fear but also anger and pain. Of course, Leia also felt this connection that linked her son to Rey and in the novel it is mentioned that Leia's embrace in Rey is a mother's embrace (not of a wife who lost her husband, but of a mother who felt fragments of her presence. Child into a person who may be your new hope).

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Sylvia Snow wrote:Hey do you guys think that since Carrie passed away, now the producers team will change Kylo's story and instead of redemption he will just die in some heroic way and either Rey or Finn will turn to be a lost Skywalker? They could CGI her face but I just worried

@Sylvia Snow

They're not going to change the entire story over this - especially now that VIII is already done, but even if it weren't. I'm not sure how it could possibly affect Kylo's redemption negatively, anyway: if anything, it would make his redemption all the more poignant and necessary. I'm convinced Ben will eventually meet his mother as a Force ghost, which I think they could manage as a combination of unused footage, CGI and a stand-in without it feeling jarring.

I'm more concerned about Leia getting a fitting ending as a hero, instead of being "respectfully" brushed aside and her off-screen death explained in a few words of dialogue before moving on with the story. Han's death was a major plot point; Leia's deserves to be, too. (Whether or not they originally planned for Leia to die at all.)

But I trust Rian and LF to manage this in a way that feels right - right for the story, right for the audience, and (especially) right for the character we've loved all these years.

@Darth Dingbat

Your entire opinion, I agree with it. One comment, I will add. Is the possibility of Rian Johnson calling Adam Driver back to film an addition piece involving Kylo in reaction Leia's demise. Hey, could very well happen. A scene as such involving Adam Driver paying tribute to Carrie as well as the bond btw SW's mother/son could be an EPIC moment in Star Wars history. Not to mention, a great chance to give Carrie's beloved character a very beautiful heroine's sacrifice for her only child by the only man she's ever loved. For the love of Solo family, MAKE IT HAPPEN, Mr. Johnson! Thx ;D

reylo1992 wrote:@Saracene

6. "Your friend is gonna be just fine"

Then, there is this deleted scene "Finn will be fine". I think that if the scene had been inserted in the final editing, it would have been just after Rey & Leia hug and just before R2-D2's wakes up. To me, Rey & Leia's hug makes also sense because they not only grieve Han, they are certainly worried about Kylo's condition too since he's gravely injured.

In the deleted scene, Rey's face become very anxious and then relax only after she hears the doctor say that Finn will be fine but also after she hears heartbeats. As the scene reminds a lot of E.T's death scene and that Kylo & Rey's interractions were full of heartbeats, I assume these heartbeat sounds to be Kylo's. That's why, I think that Rey probably felt Kylo's heartbeat stop for a while and finally beat again.


Logically,the scene with the droids would have followed. Just after R2 wakes up, they go to find Leia with camera cutting to this shot:

If Rey could feel Kylo dying for a while, I assume that Leia could definitely feel it too! So she probably felt that she was close to lose her only son.

And this is where our ladies stand, obviously not next to the medical bay where Finn is supposed to be. I ask myself whether or not Leia is this figure in front of the screen behind Rey in the deleted scene while Rey is obviously standing next to a pillar:


Even if few was said about their relationship, all these subtle clues makes me think that Ben/Kylo and Leia's interactions will be emotional rather than bitter

@reylo1992

Did Rey in that scene about being told that Finn will be fine was about sensing Kylo? It's kinda difficult to know if she was or wasn't looking at Finn. They kinda implied it's that when she told her that Finn is right she was relaxed. Kylo had injuries but they weren't as Finn's. Finn almost died but Kylo was slashed by them on arm, shoulder and face.

Leia probably was distracted. Since it happened after Han's death it must've been about Kylo since Han was dead. At least that's how it is that connection throught Force. It works when person dies or is alive, but not while that person is dead for a certain time or is it?

DarthRen wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:@Saracene

6. "Your friend is gonna be just fine"

Then, there is this deleted scene "Finn will be fine". I think that if the scene had been inserted in the final editing, it would have been just after Rey & Leia hug and just before R2-D2's wakes up. To me, Rey & Leia's hug makes also sense because they not only grieve Han, they are certainly worried about Kylo's condition too since he's gravely injured.

In the deleted scene, Rey's face become very anxious and then relax only after she hears the doctor say that Finn will be fine but also after she hears heartbeats. As the scene reminds a lot of E.T's death scene and that Kylo & Rey's interractions were full of heartbeats, I assume these heartbeat sounds to be Kylo's. That's why, I think that Rey probably felt Kylo's heartbeat stop for a while and finally beat again.


Logically,the scene with the droids would have followed. Just after R2 wakes up, they go to find Leia with camera cutting to this shot:

If Rey could feel Kylo dying for a while, I assume that Leia could definitely feel it too! So she probably felt that she was close to lose her only son.

And this is where our ladies stand, obviously not next to the medical bay where Finn is supposed to be. I ask myself whether or not Leia is this figure in front of the screen behind Rey in the deleted scene while Rey is obviously standing next to a pillar:


Even if few was said about their relationship, all these subtle clues makes me think that Ben/Kylo and Leia's interactions will be emotional rather than bitter

@reylo1992

Did Rey in that scene about being told that Finn will be fine was about sensing Kylo? It's kinda difficult to know if she was or wasn't looking at Finn. They kinda implied it's that when she told her that Finn is right she was relaxed. Kylo had injuries but they weren't as Finn's. Finn almost died but Kylo was slashed by them on arm, shoulder and face.

Leia probably was distracted. Since it happened after Han's death it must've been about Kylo since Han was dead. At least that's how it is that connection throught Force. It works when person dies or is alive, but not while that person is dead for a certain time or is it?

@DarthRen

I think she was sensing Kylo too, because she wasn't looking towards where Finn was but into open space, as if in deep concentration. The doctor doesn't come from the direction where Rey is looking at, so Rey isn't looking towards the place where Finn is. She shows relief when the doctor says her friend's gonna be fine, but then she continues looking in the direction she was looking when the doctor arrived, and seems worried, she doesn't look as light-hearted as she should after the good news.

I think she is thinking of Kylo,feeling bad for the wounds she inflicted on him. What he did was horrible but she still feels bad for leaving him there so badly wounded. She might be sensing his pain, both physical and mental through the Force and feels bad for him, despite thinking he's a "monster". I don't think his wounds aren't serious, on the contrary, the bowcaster shot he got from Chewie alone would have killed someone less powerful. Then Ray hurt him too and the blood loss must be really important.

Also, that scene in the snow shows a parallelism between Rey and Kylo's duel and the one between Anakin and Obi Wan in Mustafar. There Anakin was very badly wounded and maimed and the Dark siders saved him against all odds. I think Rey left Kylo there badly wounded (although not as much as Anakin) and abandoned to die, just like Obi One abandoned Anakin on the brink of death and in this deleted scene we can see her feeling bad for leaving him in that state. Before boarding the Falcon with Finn and Chewie to escape the exploding base she looked back, towards Kylo. That's what she is like, she feels bad for leaving him there like that.

That's what I've seen in the deleted scene since the first time I saw it and many people have read it like this. This doesn't mean we can't be wrong but I'm convinced that was the intention behind the deleted scene.

Reynak wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:@Saracene

6. "Your friend is gonna be just fine"

Then, there is this deleted scene "Finn will be fine". I think that if the scene had been inserted in the final editing, it would have been just after Rey & Leia hug and just before R2-D2's wakes up. To me, Rey & Leia's hug makes also sense because they not only grieve Han, they are certainly worried about Kylo's condition too since he's gravely injured.

In the deleted scene, Rey's face become very anxious and then relax only after she hears the doctor say that Finn will be fine but also after she hears heartbeats. As the scene reminds a lot of E.T's death scene and that Kylo & Rey's interractions were full of heartbeats, I assume these heartbeat sounds to be Kylo's. That's why, I think that Rey probably felt Kylo's heartbeat stop for a while and finally beat again.


Logically,the scene with the droids would have followed. Just after R2 wakes up, they go to find Leia with camera cutting to this shot:

If Rey could feel Kylo dying for a while, I assume that Leia could definitely feel it too! So she probably felt that she was close to lose her only son.

And this is where our ladies stand, obviously not next to the medical bay where Finn is supposed to be. I ask myself whether or not Leia is this figure in front of the screen behind Rey in the deleted scene while Rey is obviously standing next to a pillar:


Even if few was said about their relationship, all these subtle clues makes me think that Ben/Kylo and Leia's interactions will be emotional rather than bitter

@reylo1992

Did Rey in that scene about being told that Finn will be fine was about sensing Kylo? It's kinda difficult to know if she was or wasn't looking at Finn. They kinda implied it's that when she told her that Finn is right she was relaxed. Kylo had injuries but they weren't as Finn's. Finn almost died but Kylo was slashed by them on arm, shoulder and face.

Leia probably was distracted. Since it happened after Han's death it must've been about Kylo since Han was dead. At least that's how it is that connection throught Force. It works when person dies or is alive, but not while that person is dead for a certain time or is it?

@DarthRen

I think she was sensing Kylo too, because she wasn't looking towards where Finn was but into open space, as if in deep concentration. The doctor doesn't come from the direction where Rey is looking at, so Rey isn't looking towards the place where Finn is. She shows relief when the doctor says her friend's gonna be fine, but then she continues looking in the direction she was looking when the doctor arrived, and seems worried, she doesn't look as light-hearted as she should after the good news.

I think she is thinking of Kylo,feeling bad for the wounds she inflicted on him. What he did was horrible but she still feels bad for leaving him there so badly wounded. She might be sensing his pain, both physical and mental through the Force and feels bad for him, despite thinking he's a "monster". I don't think his wounds aren't serious, on the contrary, the blaster shot he got from Chewie alone would have killed someone less powerful. Then Ray hurt him too and the blood loss must be really important.

Also, that scene in the snow shows a parallelism between Rey and Kylo's duel and the one between Anakin and Obi Wan in Mustafar. There Anakin was very badly wounded and maimed and the Dark siders saved him against all odds. I think Rey left Kylo there badly wounded (although not as much as Anakin) and abandoned to die, just like Obi One abandoned Anakin on the brink of death and in this deleted scene we can see her feeling bad for leaving him in that state. Before boarding the Falcon with Finn and Chewie to escape the exploding base she looked back, towards Kylo. That's what she is like, she feels bad for leaving him there like that.

That's what I've seen in the deleted scene since the first time I saw it and many people have read it like this. This doesn't mean we can't be wrong but I'm convinced that was the intention behind the deleted scene.

@DarthRen

Well, these are as always pure speculations from my side. I might overanalyse things or interpret them as I would like them to be. Still, I am persuaded that Rey's anxiety in the scene is indeed related to Kylo's condition, which doesn't mean that she isn't worried for Finn too. I am gonna sum up my main assumptionsabout this scene - some of them will be similar to @Reynak - and for details I let you read some previous posts below so that you have all elements to judge whether you find them relevant or not

I. Prior to the scene:

1. I assume Kylo's condition to be very bad - probably as bad as Finn's if not worse - when Rey lands on the Resistance base because he certainly lose a lot of blood: he was shot by Chewie's bowcaster who literally kill instantly any other person (no coincidence that J.J. Abrams wanted to show us several times during the movie how powerful that weapon is); then, he indeed fought Finn & Rey losing blood during the blattle and ending even more injured (arm, shoulder, face); then, he was rescued but let's not forget that SKB was destroyed, which means he probably wasn't brought to a medical bay who could operate him as soon as he was found.

2. The whole movie is full of parallels with Anidala with Kylo & Rey paralleling both Anakin & Padme. Kylo may parallel a lot Anakin, he also has more of Padme that one could initially think, i.e. both Ren & Padme have  the same meaning (lotus, water lily, romance). When Rey tapped into the Dark Side after the cliff moment, she literally attacked Kylo the same way Anakin attacked  Padme, both Kylo and Padme ending injured and "heartbroken" on the ground. To me, both Kylo & Padme being transported in critical conditions, estranged from their love interest/husband is just one more parallel with this idea that the story was going to repeat itself: Kylo's heart could have stoped beating definitely the same way Padme's heart stoped beating (one can hear her heartbeat in the background as she's dying). That's why, I interpret Rey's anxiety as a parallel to Vader's despair (She was alive! I felt it!) after the Emperor tells him: "it seems in your anger, you killed her".  As Reylo is assumed to be reversed Anidala, it makes sense that the same story was close to repeat itself but that the worst was finally avoided.

3. The whole movie is full of callbacks to E.T. the Extraterrestrial (both films having Kathleen Kennedy as a producer in common) where Kylo seems to parallel E.T. where Rey seems to parallel Elliott. I might be wrong but I do see stricking parallels between "Finn will be fine" and E.T's death/come back to life scenes (see post n°2). It is canon that E.T. and Elliott share a sort of mental connection which is close to what we call a Force Bond in Star Wars which allow them to know about their feeling, conditions, etc... In "E.T. is alive"'s scene, Elliott says: "You must be dead...because I don't know how to feel...I can't feel anything anymore...". Then, both Elliott and the viewer can notice that E.T. comes back to life because his heart beat/shines again. Not only are Kylo & Rey surrounded of hearts everywhere in their scenes but official subtitle do indicate heartbeat as they're connected through the Force:

==> Heartbeat is by definition associated to feelings and more important to life itself so I assume that - like Elliott - Rey might have felt through the connection if Kylo was close to death at some point. The "heartbeat" as she glances back toward him before entering the MF is intriguing: as they didn't indicate "heartbeat in sync", it suggest that it is one-sided so either it is Rey or Kylo's. I would bet Kylo's because it would imply that the connection sort of overtake Rey.

II. The scene itself

1. The transition between the two shots was voluntarily meant to make the viewer believes that Rey observes Finn while he's being treated for injuries but I don't think she is according to her location in the scene that follows

2. When Rey's face appear on the screen, one get the sense that something isn't going well at all (her eyes suddently widdens, her mouth drops, her nares expand, she gasps for breath, her torso moves). Just before she gasps, the lightning on her face even becomes a little darker (don't know whether it was intentional or not). One can assume that her anxiety has to do with Finn's current condition BUT immediately after a smiling Dr. Kalonia appears from behind her (logically she should appear from somewhere else if Rey was really observing what's going on) to tell Rey that her friend will be fine. I know that Star Wars isn't about reality but I can't imagine any doctor coming to deliver any good news until he/she's quite sure that the patient is in stable condition. If Finn wasn't doing fine as Rey gasped, the doctor wouldn't have come to her at all and even less to give her some false good news. That's why I assume that Finn was out of danger before Rey's face became so anxious and that's why I assume that her anxiety has actually to do with Kylo's condition.

3. When Rey's face appears on the screen, she is looking into space as if her mind was somewhere else than her location and then she sorts of jump when Dr. Kalonia interrupts her thoughts as if she was broken out of a reverie

4. The scene goes so fast that it's hard to catch all microexpressions but Rey's evolution in that scene is interesting. She appears so worried at the beginning and so relieved at the end. In between, after Dr. Kalonia tells her that her friend will be fine, one can hear a slow heartbeat in the background and right after Rey blinks several times. Then, one can hear a second heartbeat and right after Rey gasps in relief. And then, one can hear two more heartbeat as she turns her head back to the camera and seems so relieved. It's very hard to catch it but if one pay attention her eyes fill with tears and her mouth moves very slightly during the last 2 seconds as if she was gasping in relief silently. She obviously experienced fear of losing him and/or having played part in his death and like @Reynak I think that she felt bad for abandoning him on SKB and these feelings that she experienced might have some consequences on their interactions in the future.  

5. I have noticed that Rey look into space and blink a lot not only in that scene but also right before she hears "It's Ben"  after Maz tells her to take the saber and also while she's goes to Leia "instinctively" after landing at the Resistance base

6. To me, it makes sense that the heartbeats are Kylo's not only because all what was written before but also because their connection is the only way for Rey to know if he's allright or not after what happened on SKB while Dr. Kalonia can tell her explicitly whether Finn is fine or not

http://reylo.skyforum.net/t320p475-archive-rey-and-kylo-beauty-and-the-beast-scavenger-and-the-monstah-their-bond-his-love-her-confused-feelings-9#68931
http://reylo.skyforum.net/t448p950-rey-and-kylo-beauty-and-the-beast-scavenger-and-the-monstah-their-bond-his-love-her-confused-feelings#101144
http://reylo.skyforum.net/t458p650-discussion-spoilers-rumors#103770

CienaRee wrote:

rey09 wrote:Ugh idk seems like whatever happens, Leia is going to die, which is going to make this story so much more depressing. Before, Kylo would carry the burden of killing Han, but would have his mother there for him in the end. Now he's going to lose his mother, and Kylo's going to feel guilty about that as well. I guess Luke will have to be there for him. Yeah Rey would be his ultimate means to get to the light side, but once he's there, it would've been good for family to be there on that side waiting for him, someone who loved him as a child. Ugh it's gonna be so heartbreaking!! It would be pretty perfect if they had good footage of Carrie standing and saying emotional stuff, I'm guessing they could Force ghost that.

@rey09
It's really so deperessing not only for Kylo but for Leia as well.She's went through so much suffering and lost so much in her life and to think she';; die beliving her son's still on the DS is heartbreaking end for her character.Yes,she will most likely die heroically(I'm sure LF will do their best to respect Carrie and her legacy)and there's the possability of her as a FG but it won't be the same(and she also wanted to be a garndma badly and she won't even get that.Now that scene with Han and baby Ben is even more bittersweet). :abtoc: :abtoc: :abtoc:
I gess Kylo and Rey will need each other more than anything since they'll both be orphans.

@CienaRee

That's part of what sucks about this, what could have been after they'd made a point in both the tie-in books how much she loves her kid, daydreams about being a grandmother (which none of the characters seem to be afforded the chance much to even be parents) and in the movie of having her say that she wants him back. All the "he sucks, he's evil, he should die" comments fail to acknowledge how much she's suffered and lost. We all hoped that the plan was at the conclusion of the trilogy, Leia would finally be allowed to have one personal victory of getting her son back, that there'd at least be one part of her personal life she didn't end up losing to tragedy.

reylo1992 wrote:

@reylo1992

You know, Rey in this shot looks awfully like Rian's overheard words from the set of episode 8: "This is when her feelings [about him] start to change."

This is from TFA obviously, but there's something reflective, wistful, and concerned about her expression here. As someone mentioned, it's as if she's sensing his pain from afar and she's conflicted because you're not supposed to be worried about your enemy, right?

So this scene may have been cut but I feel like we're going to see something like this in a future film. Maybe she will sense Kylo suffering as he undergoes his dark side training, and we'll see her staring into space like this, as if she's concerned but doesn't know what to make of it.

WhatGirl wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:

@reylo1992

You know, Rey in this shot looks awfully like Rian's overheard words from the set of episode 8: "This is when her feelings [about him] start to change."

This is from TFA obviously, but there's something reflective, wistful, and concerned about her expression here. As someone mentioned, it's as if she's sensing his pain from afar and she's conflicted because you're not supposed to be worried about your enemy, right?

So this scene may have been cut but I feel like we're going to see something like this in a future film. Maybe she will sense Kylo suffering as he undergoes his dark side training, and we'll see her staring into space like this, as if she's concerned but doesn't know what to make of it.

@WhatGirl

Same. This is exactly the expression I imagine her wearing when she realizes she feels something for him that she shouldn't...

reylo1992 wrote:

Reynak wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:@Saracene

6. "Your friend is gonna be just fine"

Then, there is this deleted scene "Finn will be fine". I think that if the scene had been inserted in the final editing, it would have been just after Rey & Leia hug and just before R2-D2's wakes up. To me, Rey & Leia's hug makes also sense because they not only grieve Han, they are certainly worried about Kylo's condition too since he's gravely injured.

In the deleted scene, Rey's face become very anxious and then relax only after she hears the doctor say that Finn will be fine but also after she hears heartbeats. As the scene reminds a lot of E.T's death scene and that Kylo & Rey's interractions were full of heartbeats, I assume these heartbeat sounds to be Kylo's. That's why, I think that Rey probably felt Kylo's heartbeat stop for a while and finally beat again.


Logically,the scene with the droids would have followed. Just after R2 wakes up, they go to find Leia with camera cutting to this shot:

If Rey could feel Kylo dying for a while, I assume that Leia could definitely feel it too! So she probably felt that she was close to lose her only son.

And this is where our ladies stand, obviously not next to the medical bay where Finn is supposed to be. I ask myself whether or not Leia is this figure in front of the screen behind Rey in the deleted scene while Rey is obviously standing next to a pillar:


Even if few was said about their relationship, all these subtle clues makes me think that Ben/Kylo and Leia's interactions will be emotional rather than bitter

@reylo1992

Did Rey in that scene about being told that Finn will be fine was about sensing Kylo? It's kinda difficult to know if she was or wasn't looking at Finn. They kinda implied it's that when she told her that Finn is right she was relaxed. Kylo had injuries but they weren't as Finn's. Finn almost died but Kylo was slashed by them on arm, shoulder and face.

Leia probably was distracted. Since it happened after Han's death it must've been about Kylo since Han was dead. At least that's how it is that connection throught Force. It works when person dies or is alive, but not while that person is dead for a certain time or is it?

@DarthRen

I think she was sensing Kylo too, because she wasn't looking towards where Finn was but into open space, as if in deep concentration. The doctor doesn't come from the direction where Rey is looking at, so Rey isn't looking towards the place where Finn is. She shows relief when the doctor says her friend's gonna be fine, but then she continues looking in the direction she was looking when the doctor arrived, and seems worried, she doesn't look as light-hearted as she should after the good news.

I think she is thinking of Kylo,feeling bad for the wounds she inflicted on him. What he did was horrible but she still feels bad for leaving him there so badly wounded. She might be sensing his pain, both physical and mental through the Force and feels bad for him, despite thinking he's a "monster". I don't think his wounds aren't serious, on the contrary, the blaster shot he got from Chewie alone would have killed someone less powerful. Then Ray hurt him too and the blood loss must be really important.

Also, that scene in the snow shows a parallelism between Rey and Kylo's duel and the one between Anakin and Obi Wan in Mustafar. There Anakin was very badly wounded and maimed and the Dark siders saved him against all odds. I think Rey left Kylo there badly wounded (although not as much as Anakin) and abandoned to die, just like Obi One abandoned Anakin on the brink of death and in this deleted scene we can see her feeling bad for leaving him in that state. Before boarding the Falcon with Finn and Chewie to escape the exploding base she looked back, towards Kylo. That's what she is like, she feels bad for leaving him there like that.

That's what I've seen in the deleted scene since the first time I saw it and many people have read it like this. This doesn't mean we can't be wrong but I'm convinced that was the intention behind the deleted scene.

@DarthRen

Well, these are as always pure speculations from my side. I might overanalyse things or interpret them as I would like them to be. Still, I am persuaded that Rey's anxiety in the scene is indeed related to Kylo's condition, which doesn't mean that she isn't worried for Finn too. I am gonna sum up my main assumptionsabout this scene - some of them will be similar to @Reynak - and for details I let you read some previous posts below so that you have all elements to judge whether you find them relevant or not

I. Prior to the scene:

1. I assume Kylo's condition to be very bad - probably as bad as Finn's if not worse - when Rey lands on the Resistance base because he certainly lose a lot of blood: he was shot by Chewie's bowcaster who literally kill instantly any other person (no coincidence that J.J. Abrams wanted to show us several times during the movie how powerful that weapon is); then, he indeed fought Finn & Rey losing blood during the blattle and ending even more injured (arm, shoulder, face); then, he was rescued but let's not forget that SKB was destroyed, which means he probably wasn't brought to a medical bay who could operate him as soon as he was found.

2. The whole movie is full of parallels with Anidala with Kylo & Rey paralleling both Anakin & Padme. Kylo may parallel a lot Anakin, he also has more of Padme that one could initially think, i.e. both Ren & Padme have  the same meaning (lotus, water lily, romance). When Rey tapped into the Dark Side after the cliff moment, she literally attacked Kylo the same way Anakin attacked  Padme, both Kylo and Padme ending injured and "heartbroken" on the ground. To me, both Kylo & Padme being transported in critical conditions, estranged from their love interest/husband is just one more parallel with this idea that the story was going to repeat itself: Kylo's heart could have stoped beating definitely the same way Padme's heart stoped beating (one can hear her heartbeat in the background as she's dying). That's why, I interpret Rey's anxiety as a parallel to Vader's despair (She was alive! I felt it!) after the Emperor tells him: "it seems in your anger, you killed her".  As Reylo is assumed to be reversed Anidala, it makes sense that the same story was close to repeat itself but that the worst was finally avoided.

3. The whole movie is full of callbacks to E.T. the Extraterrestrial (both films having Kathleen Kennedy as a producer in common) where Kylo seems to parallel E.T. where Rey seems to parallel Elliott. I might be wrong but I do see stricking parallels between "Finn will be fine" and E.T's death/come back to life scenes (see post n°2). It is canon that E.T. and Elliott share a sort of mental connection which is close to what we call a Force Bond in Star Wars which allow them to know about their feeling, conditions, etc... In "E.T. is alive"'s scene, Elliott says: "You must be dead...because I don't know how to feel...I can't feel anything anymore...". Then, both Elliott and the viewer can notice that E.T. comes back to life because his heart beat/shines again. Not only are Kylo & Rey surrounded of hearts everywhere in their scenes but official subtitle do indicate heartbeat as they're connected through the Force:

==> Heartbeat is by definition associated to feelings and more important to life itself so I assume that - like Elliott - Rey might have felt through the connection if Kylo was close to death at some point. The "heartbeat" as she glances back toward him before entering the MF is intriguing: as they didn't indicate "heartbeat in sync", it suggest that it is one-sided so either it is Rey or Kylo's. I would bet Kylo's because it would imply that the connection sort of overtake Rey.

II. The scene itself

1. The transition between the two shots was voluntarily meant to make the viewer believes that Rey observes Finn while he's being treated for injuries but I don't think she is according to her location in the scene that follows

2. When Rey's face appear on the screen, one get the sense that something isn't going well at all (her eyes suddently widdens, her mouth drops, her nares expand, she gasps for breath, her torso moves). Just before she gasps, the lightning on her face even becomes a little darker (don't know whether it was intentional or not). One can assume that her anxiety has to do with Finn's current condition BUT immediately after a smiling Dr. Kalonia appears from behind her (logically she should appear from somewhere else if Rey was really observing what's going on) to tell Rey that her friend will be fine. I know that Star Wars isn't about reality but I can't imagine any doctor coming to deliver any good news until he/she's quite sure that the patient is in stable condition. If Finn wasn't doing fine as Rey gasped, the doctor wouldn't have come to her at all and even less to give her some false good news. That's why I assume that Finn was out of danger before Rey's face became so anxious and that's why I assume that her anxiety has actually to do with Kylo's condition.

3. When Rey's face appears on the screen, she is looking into space as if her mind was somewhere else than her location and then she sorts of jump when Dr. Kalonia interrupts her thoughts as if she was broken out of a reverie

4. The scene goes so fast that it's hard to catch all microexpressions but Rey's evolution in that scene is interesting. She appears so worried at the beginning and so relieved at the end. In between, after Dr. Kalonia tells her that her friend will be fine, one can hear a slow heartbeat in the background and right after Rey blinks several times. Then, one can hear a second heartbeat and right after Rey gasps in relief. And then, one can hear two more heartbeat as she turns her head back to the camera and seems so relieved. It's very hard to catch it but if one pay attention her eyes fill with tears and her mouth moves very slightly during the last 2 seconds as if she was gasping in relief silently. She obviously experienced fear of losing him and/or having played part in his death and like @Reynak I think that she felt bad for abandoning him on SKB and these feelings that she experienced might have some consequences on their interactions in the future.  

5. I have noticed that Rey look into space and blink a lot not only in that scene but also right before she hears "It's Ben"  after Maz tells her to take the saber and also while she's goes to Leia "instinctively" after landing at the Resistance base

6. To me, it makes sense that the heartbeats are Kylo's not only because all what was written before but also because their connection is the only way for Rey to know if he's allright or not after what happened on SKB while Dr. Kalonia can tell her explicitly whether Finn is fine or not

http://reylo.skyforum.net/t320p475-archive-rey-and-kylo-beauty-and-the-beast-scavenger-and-the-monstah-their-bond-his-love-her-confused-feelings-9#68931
http://reylo.skyforum.net/t448p950-rey-and-kylo-beauty-and-the-beast-scavenger-and-the-monstah-their-bond-his-love-her-confused-feelings#101144
http://reylo.skyforum.net/t458p650-discussion-spoilers-rumors#103770

@reylo1992

Thank you so much for this detailed analysis. When I watched that scene with Maz and Rey when she said that her parents basically won't come back and someone still can and Rey said Luke. Did it really said "It's Ben." I didn't hear it but gonna believe you.

Glad to learn something from talented folks around here who has an eye for details.

Oscar posted this on Facebook, in his tribute to Carrie. Carrie and Mark both seem to be in costume, with those black cloaks over their costumes (except Carrie's gown seems to be black, too).

I hope Carrie, Mark and Oscar being at the studios at the same time can be taken as a hint that Luke joins the Resistance plot at some point and the space twins will meet one more time. That was a reunion we all wanted to see, I'm sure.

If Rey and Luke will leave Ach-To but what about Kylo? If his shuffle crashed then what? Is he going to be a prison of Resistance. That wouldn't be good for his character. Getting his a** kicked by a newbie and then captured. Luke joining Resistance is a good idea for Leia and Luke to be reunited. Luke and Han reunion wasn't in TFA so there has to be some sort of reunion. Interesting where this leaves Kylo. Is he with them or elsewhere with Rey? Perhaps he escaped On his shuffle or some other way.

Darth Dingbat wrote:Oscar posted this on Facebook, in his tribute to Carrie. Carrie and Mark both seem to be in costume, with those black cloaks over their costumes (except Carrie's gown seems to be black, too).

I hope Carrie, Mark and Oscar being at the studios at the same time can be taken as a hint that Luke joins the Resistance plot at some point and the space twins will meet one more time. That was a reunion we all wanted to see, I'm sure.

@Darth Dingbat

Carrie is wearing that beautiful two stone ring (I want one so bad) that she wore on TFA so it does seem they are in costume.  

MH's cuffs stood out to me- because they are huge starched cuffs that his previous costumes don't have, Complete with what appears to be a cravat:


Complete with little pin in the middle.  So Luke has a fancy pants costume it seems that would fit in very well with all those Dubrovnik extras.

But it is such a bittersweet photo

Moonjump05 wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:Oscar posted this on Facebook, in his tribute to Carrie. Carrie and Mark both seem to be in costume, with those black cloaks over their costumes (except Carrie's gown seems to be black, too).

I hope Carrie, Mark and Oscar being at the studios at the same time can be taken as a hint that Luke joins the Resistance plot at some point and the space twins will meet one more time. That was a reunion we all wanted to see, I'm sure.

@Darth Dingbat

Carrie is wearing that beautiful two stone ring (I want one so bad) that she wore on TFA so it does seem they are in costume.  

MH's cuffs stood out to me- because they are huge starched cuffs that his previous costumes don't have, Complete with what appears to be a cravat:


Complete with little pin in the middle.  So Luke has a fancy pants costume it seems that would fit in very well with all those Dubrovnik extras.

But it is such a bittersweet photo

@Moonjump05

Great catch on those costumes. I know that MSW says that they have no evidence that Rey and Luke leave Ahch-To (and they're probably being honest--they probably don't have any evidence), but there's no way that Luke is wearing fancy clothes like that on Ahch-To. So...that might be our evidence.

On an unrelated note, we're continuing to watch the Breaking Bad marathon on AMC and have now re-watched 2 out the 3 Rian Johnson episodes (which were already long some of my favorite episodes--well before TFA), and they are just remarkable for the inter-character tension, character development, acting performances, imagery, etc. As much of a bummer as the last few days have been, this has got me really, really excited for VIII again.

Yeah, Luke goes to Dubrovnik it seems (and meet up with FinnTran story?)- I wonder about Rey and Kylo then? They stay on Acht-too? Go somewhere else?

I think that the photo has been taken during the last few weeks of filming (if I remember correctly - like everybody were there at time).

What's bother me though, that I can't see Mark's beard properly. I wonder if it is trimmed a bit?

DarthRen wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:

Reynak wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:@Saracene

6. "Your friend is gonna be just fine"

Then, there is this deleted scene "Finn will be fine". I think that if the scene had been inserted in the final editing, it would have been just after Rey & Leia hug and just before R2-D2's wakes up. To me, Rey & Leia's hug makes also sense because they not only grieve Han, they are certainly worried about Kylo's condition too since he's gravely injured.

In the deleted scene, Rey's face become very anxious and then relax only after she hears the doctor say that Finn will be fine but also after she hears heartbeats. As the scene reminds a lot of E.T's death scene and that Kylo & Rey's interractions were full of heartbeats, I assume these heartbeat sounds to be Kylo's. That's why, I think that Rey probably felt Kylo's heartbeat stop for a while and finally beat again.


Logically,the scene with the droids would have followed. Just after R2 wakes up, they go to find Leia with camera cutting to this shot:

If Rey could feel Kylo dying for a while, I assume that Leia could definitely feel it too! So she probably felt that she was close to lose her only son.

And this is where our ladies stand, obviously not next to the medical bay where Finn is supposed to be. I ask myself whether or not Leia is this figure in front of the screen behind Rey in the deleted scene while Rey is obviously standing next to a pillar:


Even if few was said about their relationship, all these subtle clues makes me think that Ben/Kylo and Leia's interactions will be emotional rather than bitter

@reylo1992

Did Rey in that scene about being told that Finn will be fine was about sensing Kylo? It's kinda difficult to know if she was or wasn't looking at Finn. They kinda implied it's that when she told her that Finn is right she was relaxed. Kylo had injuries but they weren't as Finn's. Finn almost died but Kylo was slashed by them on arm, shoulder and face.

Leia probably was distracted. Since it happened after Han's death it must've been about Kylo since Han was dead. At least that's how it is that connection throught Force. It works when person dies or is alive, but not while that person is dead for a certain time or is it?

@DarthRen

I think she was sensing Kylo too, because she wasn't looking towards where Finn was but into open space, as if in deep concentration. The doctor doesn't come from the direction where Rey is looking at, so Rey isn't looking towards the place where Finn is. She shows relief when the doctor says her friend's gonna be fine, but then she continues looking in the direction she was looking when the doctor arrived, and seems worried, she doesn't look as light-hearted as she should after the good news.

I think she is thinking of Kylo,feeling bad for the wounds she inflicted on him. What he did was horrible but she still feels bad for leaving him there so badly wounded. She might be sensing his pain, both physical and mental through the Force and feels bad for him, despite thinking he's a "monster". I don't think his wounds aren't serious, on the contrary, the blaster shot he got from Chewie alone would have killed someone less powerful. Then Ray hurt him too and the blood loss must be really important.

Also, that scene in the snow shows a parallelism between Rey and Kylo's duel and the one between Anakin and Obi Wan in Mustafar. There Anakin was very badly wounded and maimed and the Dark siders saved him against all odds. I think Rey left Kylo there badly wounded (although not as much as Anakin) and abandoned to die, just like Obi One abandoned Anakin on the brink of death and in this deleted scene we can see her feeling bad for leaving him in that state. Before boarding the Falcon with Finn and Chewie to escape the exploding base she looked back, towards Kylo. That's what she is like, she feels bad for leaving him there like that.

That's what I've seen in the deleted scene since the first time I saw it and many people have read it like this. This doesn't mean we can't be wrong but I'm convinced that was the intention behind the deleted scene.

@DarthRen

Well, these are as always pure speculations from my side. I might overanalyse things or interpret them as I would like them to be. Still, I am persuaded that Rey's anxiety in the scene is indeed related to Kylo's condition, which doesn't mean that she isn't worried for Finn too. I am gonna sum up my main assumptionsabout this scene - some of them will be similar to @Reynak - and for details I let you read some previous posts below so that you have all elements to judge whether you find them relevant or not

I. Prior to the scene:

1. I assume Kylo's condition to be very bad - probably as bad as Finn's if not worse - when Rey lands on the Resistance base because he certainly lose a lot of blood: he was shot by Chewie's bowcaster who literally kill instantly any other person (no coincidence that J.J. Abrams wanted to show us several times during the movie how powerful that weapon is); then, he indeed fought Finn & Rey losing blood during the blattle and ending even more injured (arm, shoulder, face); then, he was rescued but let's not forget that SKB was destroyed, which means he probably wasn't brought to a medical bay who could operate him as soon as he was found.

2. The whole movie is full of parallels with Anidala with Kylo & Rey paralleling both Anakin & Padme. Kylo may parallel a lot Anakin, he also has more of Padme that one could initially think, i.e. both Ren & Padme have  the same meaning (lotus, water lily, romance). When Rey tapped into the Dark Side after the cliff moment, she literally attacked Kylo the same way Anakin attacked  Padme, both Kylo and Padme ending injured and "heartbroken" on the ground. To me, both Kylo & Padme being transported in critical conditions, estranged from their love interest/husband is just one more parallel with this idea that the story was going to repeat itself: Kylo's heart could have stoped beating definitely the same way Padme's heart stoped beating (one can hear her heartbeat in the background as she's dying). That's why, I interpret Rey's anxiety as a parallel to Vader's despair (She was alive! I felt it!) after the Emperor tells him: "it seems in your anger, you killed her".  As Reylo is assumed to be reversed Anidala, it makes sense that the same story was close to repeat itself but that the worst was finally avoided.

3. The whole movie is full of callbacks to E.T. the Extraterrestrial (both films having Kathleen Kennedy as a producer in common) where Kylo seems to parallel E.T. where Rey seems to parallel Elliott. I might be wrong but I do see stricking parallels between "Finn will be fine" and E.T's death/come back to life scenes (see post n°2). It is canon that E.T. and Elliott share a sort of mental connection which is close to what we call a Force Bond in Star Wars which allow them to know about their feeling, conditions, etc... In "E.T. is alive"'s scene, Elliott says: "You must be dead...because I don't know how to feel...I can't feel anything anymore...". Then, both Elliott and the viewer can notice that E.T. comes back to life because his heart beat/shines again. Not only are Kylo & Rey surrounded of hearts everywhere in their scenes but official subtitle do indicate heartbeat as they're connected through the Force:

==> Heartbeat is by definition associated to feelings and more important to life itself so I assume that - like Elliott - Rey might have felt through the connection if Kylo was close to death at some point. The "heartbeat" as she glances back toward him before entering the MF is intriguing: as they didn't indicate "heartbeat in sync", it suggest that it is one-sided so either it is Rey or Kylo's. I would bet Kylo's because it would imply that the connection sort of overtake Rey.

II. The scene itself

1. The transition between the two shots was voluntarily meant to make the viewer believes that Rey observes Finn while he's being treated for injuries but I don't think she is according to her location in the scene that follows

2. When Rey's face appear on the screen, one get the sense that something isn't going well at all (her eyes suddently widdens, her mouth drops, her nares expand, she gasps for breath, her torso moves). Just before she gasps, the lightning on her face even becomes a little darker (don't know whether it was intentional or not). One can assume that her anxiety has to do with Finn's current condition BUT immediately after a smiling Dr. Kalonia appears from behind her (logically she should appear from somewhere else if Rey was really observing what's going on) to tell Rey that her friend will be fine. I know that Star Wars isn't about reality but I can't imagine any doctor coming to deliver any good news until he/she's quite sure that the patient is in stable condition. If Finn wasn't doing fine as Rey gasped, the doctor wouldn't have come to her at all and even less to give her some false good news. That's why I assume that Finn was out of danger before Rey's face became so anxious and that's why I assume that her anxiety has actually to do with Kylo's condition.

3. When Rey's face appears on the screen, she is looking into space as if her mind was somewhere else than her location and then she sorts of jump when Dr. Kalonia interrupts her thoughts as if she was broken out of a reverie

4. The scene goes so fast that it's hard to catch all microexpressions but Rey's evolution in that scene is interesting. She appears so worried at the beginning and so relieved at the end. In between, after Dr. Kalonia tells her that her friend will be fine, one can hear a slow heartbeat in the background and right after Rey blinks several times. Then, one can hear a second heartbeat and right after Rey gasps in relief. And then, one can hear two more heartbeat as she turns her head back to the camera and seems so relieved. It's very hard to catch it but if one pay attention her eyes fill with tears and her mouth moves very slightly during the last 2 seconds as if she was gasping in relief silently. She obviously experienced fear of losing him and/or having played part in his death and like @Reynak I think that she felt bad for abandoning him on SKB and these feelings that she experienced might have some consequences on their interactions in the future.  

5. I have noticed that Rey look into space and blink a lot not only in that scene but also right before she hears "It's Ben"  after Maz tells her to take the saber and also while she's goes to Leia "instinctively" after landing at the Resistance base

6. To me, it makes sense that the heartbeats are Kylo's not only because all what was written before but also because their connection is the only way for Rey to know if he's allright or not after what happened on SKB while Dr. Kalonia can tell her explicitly whether Finn is fine or not

http://reylo.skyforum.net/t320p475-archive-rey-and-kylo-beauty-and-the-beast-scavenger-and-the-monstah-their-bond-his-love-her-confused-feelings-9#68931
http://reylo.skyforum.net/t448p950-rey-and-kylo-beauty-and-the-beast-scavenger-and-the-monstah-their-bond-his-love-her-confused-feelings#101144
http://reylo.skyforum.net/t458p650-discussion-spoilers-rumors#103770

@reylo1992

Thank you so much for this detailed analysis. When I watched that scene with Maz and Rey when she said that her parents basically won't come back and someone still can and Rey said Luke. Did it really said "It's Ben." I didn't hear it but gonna believe you.

Glad to learn something from talented folks around here who has an eye for details.

@DarthRen

Well, I didn't notice the whisper by myself. Actually, I watched the scene a million times without notice it but now that some people pointed it out, I can clearly hear it. I first thought it could be just a noise that Rey made while getting up but a close analysis of that moment convinced me that it's not the case. I think that people who noticed that detail are definitely right about the whisper for the following reasons:

I) Visual:

If one focus only on the visual aspect, one get the sense that something weird is going on:

1)  Here's Rey's face when Maz tells her that the light has always been there, just before Maz opens again her eyes to

She may have learned that her family will never come back for her but she seems so hopeful. She listen carefully Maz and tilts her head as if she was telling herself: "Yeah! It's gonna be alright! I'll find the belonging I seek!"

2) Here's Rey's face just after Maz tells her to take the saber:

Her face expression has totally changed. She's staring into space as if her mind was somewhere else. She has exactly the same expression as in the "Finn will be fine" scene unless that she doesn't look so worried because there's obviously no need for concern.

3) Then, she blinks a first time and looks even more focused as if something was happening:

She also blinks like that in the "Finn will be fine" scene, which is obviously normal blink like all human being do. The blink is clearly emphasized as a sign that something is happening to her at that moment

4) Then, Rey's react to that whisper:

She blinks, raise her eyebrows and literally  jumps on her feet!

5) And this is where she looks just before camera cuts again to her face

She is turning her head on the right side, where she found the lightsaber but when camera cuts again to her face, she's looking at Maz! My guess is that this "jump cut" between the two shots is no accident because  J.J. Abrams obviously like to use this technic to insert Easter Egg without making it too obvious:

Showing Rey turning her head back to Maz & showing Kylo coming that close to her would have much too obvious. I get the impression that J.J. Abrams would rather have people think that he made some mistake than making things too obvious if it serves the plot. That's why I also believe  that Leia hugging Rey instead of Chewie - as if she even didn't notice his presence - was no mistake but perfectly intentional because the reason shall be explained later in the trilogy

II) Sounds

1) I definitely hear the voice saying "It's Ben!", which is what makes the most sense to me because:
a) Rey believes Luke to be the person that could come back for her so it's a subtle way to debunk it
b) The whisper occurs just after Maz tells her "The saber! Take it". Knowing that Kylo claim the saber to be his belonging, it makes sense that the whisper would have something to do with him. Let's keep in mind that Rey first saw a boy calling her at the end of the hallway in Bespin, which is the place where the saber disappeared. So I wouldn't be surprised if Ben would have found it whilw accompanying once his father on Bespin.
c) The novelization makes it clear that Rey had already seen Kylo in a "daydream, in a nightmare" and had regularly heard a male voice in her dreams before the events of TFA, which implies that their Force connection with Kylo obviously existed prior to their meeting on Takodana. That's why, it makes sense to me that Kylo is the one who whispered "It's Ben" although it's also possible that Obi-Wan did it to help Rey to understand that Ben/Kylo will be part of her future. Still, if Kylo reached out to Rey at that moment, why did he introduce himself as Ben to her?
d) As I wrote in the previous post, I believe Kylo & Rey to have the same kind of connection as E.T. and Elliott with all these parallels between both movies. I see a parallel with the "E.T. phone home"'s scene because E.T. can only come home with Elliott's help. Just after E.T. says "E.T. home phone", Gertie - Elliott's sister - says "E.T. phone home" and add a little later "he wants to call somebody!". Well, Maz words are very interesting: she first says "that lightsaber was Luke's and his father before him" (Kylo's belonging behind) and then add "and now, it calls to you!" (Kylo's belonging ahead). And then, there is this voice whispering "It's Ben!" like someone who would introduced himself to his recepteur by saying "Hi! It's Ben" while phoning. We never saw any lightsaber call the way thhe Skywalker lightsaber called Rey so that's why I think that Kylo & Rey's connection prior to this call play a big part in this

2) When Rey jumps on her feets, one can hear her gasp for breath and then breath loudly

III) Rey's attitude

One describe Kylo's attitude as changing and unpredictable but Rey's attitude is quite similar in some way because in just a few seconds she went from:

This...

To this...


Here's some videos about that Easter Egg:



Plus the scene itself with enhanced audio (3:50 min)

It's the ring which proves that Rey is Leia's daughter : P. @ISeeAnIsland - I have a really bad problem with watching TV and my attention span, plus being burned out on the anti-hero lead trope. But you may have inspired me to at least try those episodes because Johnson wrote/directed them.

Moonjump05 wrote:Yeah, Luke goes to Dubrovnik it seems (and meet up with FinnTran story?)- I wonder about Rey and Kylo then? They stay on Acht-too? Go somewhere else?

@Moonjump05

Man, I hope they end up giving the finger to their respective sides and running off together. At least it's a lot more entertaining when the two of them are together and him trying to boss her around brings out the whole "frustrated bad guy" side of his personality.

Moonjump05 wrote:Yeah, Luke goes to Dubrovnik it seems (and meet up with FinnTran story?)- I wonder about Rey and Kylo then? They stay on Acht-too? Go somewhere else?

@Moonjump05

Yup. MSW did have that "there's a shot of Luke walking through a casino, looking for someone" rumor that they backtracked on, saying that Luke was on-set, but that that wasn't a shot in the movie.

And if you recall, Mark Hamill was supposedly seen in Dubrovnik, although there was some debate as to whether he shot anything or was just hanging out there. Given that one of the stunts/effects was described as a "Force push" of someone off of a staircase or balcony, it seems like we might be getting more evidence of Luke showing up there.

I agree with @Moonjump05 , MH costume look so much like those formal clothing in Dubrovnik, I guess it could means that Luke will eventually leave Ach-To at some point, traveled to Dubrovnik, possibly for Han's funeral or the Hosnian System memorial where he meet Leia. And beside from Finn and KMT, I don't think we have any information about either Rey or Kylo in Dubrovnik, so they could separate from Luke and travel together. If Rey fall down the cliff and Kylo jump after her, could Luke think they they both died and since Ach-To is no more a secret, he decided to go back to Leia?

For some reason I think that whatever Luke was seeking in Ach-To, the First Jedi temple or anything, he didn't find it or hit the dead end, but instead Rey and Kylo could be the one to discover the truth. Maybe they are the ones who come to the place  with the Force Tree

http://makingstarwars.net/2016/12/luke-skywalker-and-general-leia-costumes-from-star-wars-episode-viii/

MSW posted his article on the costumes.

(I hope Oscar won't have any problems by posting the pic)

Darth_Awakened wrote:http://makingstarwars.net/2016/12/luke-skywalker-and-general-leia-costumes-from-star-wars-episode-viii/

MSW posted his article on the costumes.

(I hope Oscar won't have any problems by posting the pic)

@Darth_Awakened

Disney should cut everyone some slack. There is a time for everything and right now is the best time for them to keep their business profile low and let people mourn. It's not like he posted pages of the script.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Moonjump05 wrote:Yeah, Luke goes to Dubrovnik it seems (and meet up with FinnTran story?)- I wonder about Rey and Kylo then?  They stay on Acht-too?  Go somewhere else?  

@Moonjump05

Yup. MSW did have that "there's a shot of Luke walking through a casino, looking for someone" rumor that they backtracked on, saying that Luke was on-set, but that that wasn't a shot in the movie.

And if you recall, Mark Hamill was supposedly seen in Dubrovnik, although there was some debate as to whether he shot anything or was just hanging out there. Given that one of the stunts/effects was described as a "Force push" of someone off of a staircase or balcony, it seems like we might be getting more evidence of Luke showing up there.

@ISeeAnIsland

Obviously Daisy Ridley herself wasn't on Dubrovnik but her understudy or tumbler - I don't really know - was there

Since it's quite clear that the film won't end on Ahch-To, Luke, Kylo, Rey &  will have to get out of there in some way. I can't imagine Luke leaving Ahch-To without a good reason since he's been spending so much time there so I rather believe in the idea that they would be forced to leave the place.

Making Star Wars talked about protectors of Ahch-To, so obviously there's something to protect there: Why not under the Force tree, which is obviously supposed to play some big role? Why not having Kylo & Rey retrieving some precious object there? Since Ahch-To is the perfect place for the callbacks to Letter Never Sent, the plot there could involve both the search for some precious object - paralleling the diamants - and some battle for survival.

What if Kylo & Rey would find themselves stranded in a sort of cave a little like Rapunzel and Eugene in Tangled?

I think that we could have some remake of the cliff moment of TFA with both of them falling in the ocean (since Rey imagine an ocean while she falls asleep), Rey experiencing some vision whle she's sinking and Kylo saving her like the Beast saves Belle from drowning.  Then, they would have to work together to find their way out of the underground and this could lead them under the Force tree ...

1. In Harry Potter, there is a sort of cave under the Whomping Willow...

...and the first time that Snape & Lily meet, Snape get out of a tree...


2. There was two interesting videos on You tube pointing out how much Kylo & Rey seem to parallel Adam & Eve:


So Ahch-To is meant to be a sort of Garden of Eden and the Force Tree a sort of Tree of the knowledge of good and evil, there's perhaps something important in this place that would represent some temptation. This would be in parallel with the temptation than Kylo & Rey represent for one another, especially having in mind how Kylo's puppy eyes travel on Rey's face focusing on her mouth while talking about the island:


I must say I don't know so much about religion but if I remember well Adam & Eve were bannished by God from the Garden of Eden after they ate the apple of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, right? This topic of forbidden thing to eat/touch/retrieve sounds definitely very Disney-like and is closely bound both with curse and /or sexual awakening in some cases:


3. Interestingly, they decided to have the MF not far at all from the Force Tree...


So why not having Kylo & Rey getting out of the Force Tree after touching/ retrieving some object and having to escape the island because the protectors chase them and/or the island collapse or something like that? I  already wrote about it but I more and more like the idea of a scenario close to Aladin escaping the cave of wonders because Abu touched the forbidden treasure. And I just noticed that the steps on Ahch-To look strangely similar to the steps in the Cave of Wonders, or I just imagine things Since I want to see Kylo piloting the Falcon like hell, having Ahch-To collapsing like the Cave of Wonders would offer a great spectacle...

No matter which scenario they choose, I don't think the screenwriters would have Luke, Kylo & Rey spend so much time there, Rey dreaming of this island and Letter Never Sent as inspiration if the place and/or what's there isn't supposed to play a big part for the plot beyond Episode VIII.

Then, the question is to know where Luke would be and what he would do in between. I think that if they all have to escape, Luke probably has a ship on his own somewhere on Ahch-To (place A) . I believe that he arrived there rather with a small one-place ship than a big one so he would leave only with R2 onboard. Kylo & Rey would leave on their own with the Falcon. So both duos would fly separately because I can hardly imagine them traveling alltogether in the same ship and they would probably be reunited with the other characters only for the very last part of the movie. So if Rey & Kylo don't show up in Dubrovnik (place B) while Luke does, I think that they will go to some unknown planet (place C) for some specific reason. Would this have to do with the retrieved object/information itself? Would this have to do with some personal reason, i.e. Kylo trying to save his mother the same way Anakin did? Wait and see...

Anyway, I think that it would make sense if Rey would meet again with Luke, Finn and the others knowing that a lot of things would have changed since the end of TFA. So if Kylo & Rey don't show up in Dubrovnik, either everybody shall get reunited in place C or on some other unknown planet (place D) by the end.

I have some doubts about Luke Skywalker in Dubrovnik.

They were filming in Ireland for about a month - I would say (I'am not an expert though - feel free to correct me) it makes a fair amount of footage. If Ireland stands for Anch-To then it seems that Luke, Rey and Kylo stay there for almost entire movie.

If Luke pops-up in Dubrovnik - I think it will be by the end of the movie. However, the one thing we know for sure that at least one scene in Dubrovnik happens right before the middle of the movie. (The number of the scene at the filming board suggests so).

As well, Finn and KMT are definitely there - however there was also a rumor reported by MSW of both of them fighting the stormtroopers - who (alongside the other FO uniforms)were nowhere to be seen in Dubrovnik.

It's just a bit too confusing for now.