ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 7

Man, there's really gonna be a change.org petition when Reylo becomes canon. All the signs are there. These people are unstable and will stop at nothing to shame us. Thankfully, Disney doesn't give a f****.

Neither should we. Personally, I couldn't care less, but it's sad that a movie made for enjoyment provoked such negative reactions. There seems to be some kind of misunderstanding. None of the people (at least the majority) supporting this development tries to romanticise or misinterpret the characters' interactions. The so called Finnreys do that and it's simply not in the story, never has been and recently we got an official confirmation of this. Narrative structure is yet another nail in the coffin because of the A/B plots, etc. There are only so many options left and I see no reason to worry. Kylo is her guy, the only fitting love interest if she is to have any. Finn is the friend, the brother, but he is not her equal the way Kylo is. They don't have that romantic spark.

We know Kylo and Rey are adversaries at this point, we know it's problematic, but that doesn't mean their dynamics won't evolve. What's important is that they're equals. She overpowered him twice so is certainly not a victim. Having in mind pieces of info we have, they'll spend a significant amount of time together and that has to lead to something. Each scene with them was a highlight of the plot in VII  it's only logical that this will continue because they're the heart of the story and each of them is key to the other's personal development. I trust that with the good writers they hopefully have, the production team can pull it off and make it compelling for everyone. Of course, a love story is not obligatory, but it's always been a central theme in this franchise and frankly, based on the undeniable hints we have been given so far, including after the movie's release, I would be surprised if it remains unreciprocated after Kylo's redemption.

Also, how cool it would be to have a FS couple for once (excluding the comics, etc., which I haven't read)?

Ok i just removed the post, but its been duplicate and i cant remove that. To clarify: teens as a whole are not finished with their brain development and this affects their ability to reason. . Someone with mental illness may be hindered in rational thinking by that mental illness.  These are generalizations and ymmv. I do not think generalizations hold true for every member of a group. The point of the original post that i deleted was to say that there were traits of that particular anti that could explain the illogic of his/her post.

Let the record show i have PTSD, clinical depression, and an a cutter. TMI provided in attempt to show i dont think im "above" or "better than"; it was not disclosed in order to freak anyone out.  Nothing i posted was intended as a diss to anyone. I will withdraw from this subconversation now and go back to bed.

A part of me wonders if the negative reaction would be as strong if Disney had cast a traditionally handsome actor? Some of the antis have said nasty things about AD appearance. They don't want Reylo to happen because in their eyes he's not up to par looks wise.

BenRey wrote:A part of me wonders if the negative reaction would be as strong if Disney had cast a traditionally handsome actor? Some of the antis have said nasty things about AD appearance. They don't want Reylo to happen because in their eyes he's not up to par looks wise.

@BenRey

I don't think so. They would have been even more vitriolic and called Kylo a "generic pretty white boy"...

He is without a doubt the prettiest, most seductive, tormented Dark sider I've ever met!

Pure jealousy is all that is. I see as many people b****ing because people "excuse Kylo's behavior because he looks like Lord Byron". They know he's attractive to a significant portion of the female audience.

Both actors are attractive. One actor's looks are totally sexed up in front of Rey. One's looks are not. Do the math.

Queen of the Knights wrote:He is without a doubt the prettiest, most seductive, tormented Dark sider I've ever met!

@Queen of the Knights

No kidding! I knew he was going to show his face at some point in the movie, just figured it would be for his parents. But once he did it for Rey, that pretty much sealed it for me what was going on (and then I was like "this is pretty f***ing amazing" because I had such low expectations going in).

And @Slade - enjoy your nap. I have totally enjoyed your perspective on things, being from the cousin subculture of the Goths, the Punks. Ha, I think what tipped me over to deciding to go see TFA for the first time was one friend's comment that Rey felt like she'd be a Riot Grrl. So there you go, our two kids will very much a beautiful friendship that frequently springs up between Punks and Goths.

snufkin wrote:

Queen of the Knights wrote:He is without a doubt the prettiest, most seductive, tormented Dark sider I've ever met!

@Queen of the Knights

No kidding! I knew he was going to show his face at some point in the movie, just figured it would be for his parents. But once he did it for Rey, that pretty much sealed it for me what was going on (and then I was like "this is pretty f***ing amazing" because I had such low expectations going in).

And @Slade - enjoy your nap. I have totally enjoyed your perspective on things, being from the cousin subculture of the Goths, the Punks. Ha, I think what tipped me over to deciding to go see TFA for the first time was one friend's comment that Rey felt like she'd be a Riot Grrl. So there you go, our two kids will very much a beautiful friendship that frequently springs up between Punks and Goths.

@snufkin

Oh Rey would totally be a Riot Grrl. TBH, I've gotten a bit of a Riot Grrl vibe from Daisy in her interviews. A woman who wears Chucks as much as Daisy can't not have a little Riot Grrl in her.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@snufkin

Oh Rey would totally be a Riot Grrl. TBH, I've gotten a bit of a Riot Grrl vibe from Daisy in her interviews. A woman who wears Chucks as much as Daisy can't not have a little Riot Grrl in her.

@ISeeAnIsland

Yes to both! And I dig the ongoing references she makes to Studio Ghibli and Hayao Miyazaki - hopefully Rey will continue to be a kindred spirit to those also take charge but very nuanced and true to life heroines.

Honestly the whole thing of trying to paint people as racists and abuse-apologists in real life over a ship is plain old horrifying to me. You're taking fiction and making it personal in a way that could hurt somebody. A REAL somebody, not fictional Rey who does not need protecting. It baffles me to no end that these people think they're on the moral high-ground too.

The racist thing especially gets me. Many people are more interested in Kylo and his dynamic with Rey than Finn for obvious reasons,none of which are about race. One is that many just find villains more interesting than heroes on a whole. I submit the idea that a morally grey villain like Kylo would be loved regardless of whether or not he was a white male, it's just that white men tend to be the ones who are usually put in those kinds of roles, sadly. I think lots of creators are still afraid of backlash if they cast anyone else in those roles. I'm reminded of the Evil Queen from the show Once Upon a Time. She is also a sympathetic antagonist and is thus easily one of the most popular and loved characters on the show despite murdering countless people. She also got a redemption, and I want to note that Once Upon a Time is a DISNEY-OWNED show.

Another is that Finn has no conflict with Rey. Whatever conflict they did or could have had went away real fast. Even Luke and Han had much more conflict in their relationship, thus that relationship stands out more. It's also what makes the prospect of FinnRey rather boring to most. Everybody wants that kind of loving, minimal conflict relationship by real life standards but watching that in a movie, especially one as action-packed as Star Wars, is boring. They're cute and it's good to know they have a friendship like that, but that's about it when it comes to the Finn and Rey dynamic so far. Compare that to the Rey and Kylo relationship, which could go in multiple very interesting directions at this point. There's no lack of tension or conflict there, not all of which is about hurting each other.

I could go more into the fact that the romantic chemistry between Finn and Rey is nearly zilch compared to the tension between Rey and Kylo, but we've discussed that a lot. This idea some people are touting that it's racist if someone doesn't fall all over themselves for any non-white character and hold them above all others is absolutely ridiculous. As someone who is part black, I'm excited as hell to see Finn on screen. I love him, even if I feel like they're wasting his character potential so far. I would never, ever dream of calling someone who likes another character over him racist, especially when that character is a complex villain in a series that has celebrated villains like no other. This is especially laughable when there are actual real life racists who are angry about Boyega even being in the movie. But Reylo shippers are clearly the problem.

I've learned to ignore these people, but what they represent about today's fandom culture just depresses me. Anything, anything to feel superior and make perceived "inferiors" feel bad about themselves. That's usually nasty enough, but it's even nastier when it hides behind the guise of "morality" and "progressiveness".

Anyways, sorry for ranting!

ZioRen wrote:Honestly the whole thing of trying to paint people as racists and abuse-apologists in real life over a ship is plain old horrifying to me. You're taking fiction and making it personal in a way that could hurt somebody. A REAL somebody, not fictional Rey who does not need protecting. It baffles me to no end that these people think they're on the moral high-ground too.

The racist thing especially gets me. Many people are more interested in Kylo and his dynamic with Rey than Finn for obvious reasons,none of which are about  race. One is that many just find villains more interesting than heroes on a whole. I submit the idea that a morally grey villain like Kylo would be loved regardless of whether or not he was a white male, it's just that white men tend to be the ones who are usually put in those kinds of roles, sadly. I think lots of creators are still afraid of backlash if they cast anyone else in those roles. I'm reminded of the Evil Queen from the show Once Upon a Time. She is also a sympathetic antagonist and is thus easily one of the most popular and loved characters on the show despite murdering countless people. She also got a redemption, and I want to note that Once Upon a Time is a DISNEY-OWNED show.

Another is that Finn has no conflict with Rey. Whatever conflict they did or could have had went away real fast. Even Luke and Han had much more conflict in their relationship, thus that relationship stands out more. It's also what makes the prospect of FinnRey rather boring to most. Everybody wants that kind of loving, minimal conflict relationship by real life standards but watching that in a movie, especially one as action-packed as Star Wars, is boring. They're cute and it's good to know they have a friendship like that, but that's about it when it comes to the Finn and Rey dynamic so far. Compare that to the Rey and Kylo relationship, which could go in multiple very interesting directions at this point. There's no lack of tension or conflict there, not all of which is about hurting each other.

I could go more into the fact that the romantic chemistry between Finn and Rey is nearly zilch compared to the tension between Rey and Kylo, but we've discussed that a lot. This idea some people are touting that it's racist if someone doesn't fall all over themselves for any non-white character and hold them above all others absolutely ridiculous. As someone who is part black, I'm excited as hell to see Finn on screen. I love him, even if I feel like they're wasting his character potential so far. I would never, ever dream of calling someone who likes another character over him racist, especially when that character is a complex villain in a series that has celebrated villains like no other. This is especially laughable when there are actual real life racists who are angry about Boyega even being in the movie. But Reylo shippers are clearly the problem.

I've learned to ignore these people, but what they represent about today's fandom culture just depresses me. Anything, anything to feel superior and make perceived "inferiors" feel bad about themselves. That's usually nasty enough, but it's even nastier when it hides behind the guise of "morality" and "progressiveness".

Anyways, sorry for ranting!

@ZioRen

Don't be sorry for ranting. That was A+.

A few points though I want to bring up:

1) I want to ask those people who take fiction and make it way too personal this: "What's the problem? Is it me for enjoying someting that perhaps wouldn't work well in real life, but is interesting to see evolve from a fictional pov? Or is it you for not being able to separate fiction from real life?

Emphasis mine.

2) I love Regina from OUAT to bits, but I personally her redemption arc was very clumsily done. Well, the writers have been taking poor decisions story-wise since the end of season 3, so I'm not going to start a debate here.

3) Seriously? People working on the set of TFA were against John Boyega's casting? Youch. I'm disgusted.

Irina de France wrote:
@ZioRen

Don't be sorry for ranting. That was A+.

A few points though I want to bring up:

1) I want to ask those people who take fiction and make it way too personal this: "What's the problem? Is it me for enjoying someting that perhaps wouldn't work well in real life, but is interesting to see evolve from a fictional pov? Or is it you for not being able to separate fiction from real life?

Emphasis mine.

2) I love Regina from OUAT to bits, but I personally her redemption arc was very clumsily done. Well, the writers have been taking poor decisions story-wise since the end of season 3, so I'm not going to start a debate here.

3) Seriously? People working on the set of TFA were against John Boyega's casting? Youch. I'm disgusted.

@Irina de France

I agree on the Regina redemption, actually. But the fact that it's even a thing is a sign that Disney isn't afraid to "go there", so to speak, even with villains who have done awful things. And she didn't only have her redemption in death either. She lived on!

And ahhh no, I don't know anything about people on the TFA set who were against Boyega's casting! I'm talking about the outcry I've seen from some "fans" about a black man being a lead in "their" Star Wars.

@zioren,
I completely agree with you.  My friend and I were discussing the shaming of people because they like certain stories.  This seems to be something I became aware of in the last eight years, I feel it is ridiculous.

I think Boyega himself even admitted on an interview that he had been received some nasty racist angry mails from so called fans just because he's one of the main lead in Star Wars. That's just sad and ridiculous, those people...

Sylvia Snow wrote:I think Boyega himself even admitted on an interview that he had been received some nasty racist angry mails from so called fans just because he's one of the main lead in Star Wars. That's just sad and ridiculous, those people...

@Sylvia Snow

That freaking kills me, man. If you read any article that's done on TFA that's addressed to the GA on sites like yahoo, the comments section will truly disgust you. It's not even about Reylo really, but the movie itself. I've seen everything from racist comments about John Boyega to derogatory comments about Adam's looks. Daisy Ridley is called a Mary Sue (ad nauseum) and you would think this was the absolute worst film in movie history. You would think that it's worse than the Human Centipede, if you believed these comments.

It's really bizarre.

Just remember, when a dissenter told JB he was saying some bullsith when he said Rey and Finn were just friends/not playing romance in that interview, whose side did he take? Did he agree with the hateful anti, saying "You're right, I'm an idiot!" or did he stand his ground and resolutely call out this arrogance with "Oh yeah? You've read the script?"

Antis are on the wrong side. They always have been, they always will be. Just knowing that makes them very sick on the inside but they're not going to back down because that's not their personality. It's best to let them be.

Basically, we represent the students that stayed awake and paid attention in Language Arts/Literature classes and they're the ones that, well...

were looking around aimlessly like this:



(only without the sexiness)

Man, I hate hearing that Boyega got that kind of mail. Disgusting. And I truly do not get the issue some people have with Driver's appearance (protective mama bear instincts kick in). Those people have a mighty warped definition of attractiveness. Yeah, some people tried to body shame Daisy and she told them off. I am glad she and JB dish it right back. Seriously, what does it do for these haters to just s*** all over actors like that?

This anti reylo stuff is truly one of the most bizarre things I have ever seen (I had not been into any online fandom prior to TFA). It is...Orwellian. I cannot remember if it was Nathaniel Hawthorne or Edgar Allan Poe, but one of them said that if any human wrote down what s/he actually thought, the words would catch fire and burn because what they expressed would be so ugly. They were right; cyberspace is where it happens.

Xylo Ren wrote:Just remember, when a dissenter told JB he was saying some bullsith when he said Rey and Finn were just friends/not playing romance in that interview, whose side did he take? Did he agree with the hateful anti, saying "You're right, I'm an idiot!" or did he stand his ground and resolutely call out this arrogance with "Oh yeah? You've read the script?"

Antis are on the wrong side. They always have been, they always will be. Just knowing that makes them very sick on the inside but they're not going to back down because that's not their personality. It's best to let them be.

Basically, we represent the students that stayed awake and paid attention in Language Arts/Literature classes and they're the ones that, well...

were looking around aimlessly like this:



(only without the sexiness)

@Xylo Ren

That gif of adam is great! Sweet Boo.

Slade wrote:Man, I hate hearing that Boyega got that kind of mail. Disgusting. And I truly do not get the issue some people have with Driver's appearance (protective mama bear instincts kick in). Those people have a mighty warped definition of attractiveness. Yeah, some people tried to body shame Daisy and she told them off. I am glad she and JB dish it right back. Seriously, what does it do for these haters to just s*** all over actors like that?

This anti reylo stuff is truly one of the most bizarre things I have ever seen (I had not been into any online fandom prior to TFA). It is...Orwellian. I cannot remember if it was Nathaniel Hawthorne or Edgar Allan Poe, but one of them said that if any human wrote down what s/he actually thought, the words would catch fire and burn because what they expressed would be so ugly. They were right; cyberspace is where it happens.

@Slade

^^100% This!
It never occurred to me how much rubbish the Actors put up with - because TFA was such a fantastic movie I couldn't imagine anyone having one bad thing to say about it, or the actors therein. Holy-moly was I wrong, and it is unbelievably sad.
 
For the most part, it has been my observation that the Reylo people are far more pleasant to interact with than the other shippers...whatever they may be. Additionally, I have found Reylo analyses to be, well thought out, sound, in depth and hold more adherence to classic plot line and storytelling tactics. Furthermore, Reylos almost always back up with fact, in a way that is both compelling and easy to understand.
So basically, kudos to us!

Krafty wrote:

Slade wrote:Man, I hate hearing that Boyega got that kind of mail. Disgusting. And I truly do not get the issue some people have with Driver's appearance (protective mama bear instincts kick in). Those people have a mighty warped definition of attractiveness. Yeah, some people tried to body shame Daisy and she told them off. I am glad she and JB dish it right back. Seriously, what does it do for these haters to just s*** all over actors like that?

This anti reylo stuff is truly one of the most bizarre things I have ever seen (I had not been into any online fandom prior to TFA). It is...Orwellian. I cannot remember if it was Nathaniel Hawthorne or Edgar Allan Poe, but one of them said that if any human wrote down what s/he actually thought, the words would catch fire and burn because what they expressed would be so ugly. They were right; cyberspace is where it happens.

@Slade

^^100% This!
It never occurred to me how much rubbish the Actors put up with - because TFA was such a fantastic movie I couldn't imagine anyone having one bad thing to say about it, or the actors therein. Holy-moly was I wrong, and it is unbelievably sad.
 
For the most part, it has been my observation that the Reylo people are far more pleasant to interact with than the other shippers...whatever they may be. Additionally, I have found Reylo analyses to be, well thought out, sound, in depth and hold more adherence to classic plot line and storytelling tactics. Furthermore, Reylos almost always back up with fact, in a way that is both compelling and easy to understand.
So basically, kudos to us!

@Krafty

I thought this months ago back before I even gave Reylo much thought. Right in the thick of the Reylo-hate on top of that. For all some fans were acting like Reylo shippers were the worst people in the world, I mostly saw Reylos in-depth discussing characters and pumping out the best meta, even if I didn't agree with all of it. And for a long time Reylo shippers were the only ones who considered Kylo's sympathetic side and dared to not write him off as just "the representation of everything bad about modern white men" or whatever crap people used to spout. So I started paying attention and following Reylo blogs for the good discussion, and then I ended up shipping it!

Now here I am. Such a journey!

BenRey wrote:Man, there's really gonna be a change.org petition when Reylo becomes canon. All the signs are there. These people are unstable and will stop at nothing to shame us. Thankfully, Disney doesn't give a f****.

@BenRey

This is actually a hilarious idea!

Slade wrote:

BenRey wrote:Man, there's really gonna be a change.org petition when Reylo becomes canon. All the signs are there. These people are unstable and will stop at nothing to shame us. Thankfully, Disney doesn't give a f****.

@BenRey

This is actually a hilarious idea!

@Slade

Reading this just brings up the mental image of all the Focus on the Family type groups who've tried to shut down Gay Days at Disneyworld.

snufkin wrote:

Slade wrote:

BenRey wrote:Man, there's really gonna be a change.org petition when Reylo becomes canon. All the signs are there. These people are unstable and will stop at nothing to shame us. Thankfully, Disney doesn't give a f****.

@BenRey

This is actually a hilarious idea!

@Slade

Reading this just brings up the mental image of all the Focus on the Family type groups who've tried to shut down Gay Days at Disneyworld.

@snufkin

Oh man ! Private company/organization/leaders determining their own destiny here, expressing freely, not hurting anybody. If you don't like the product or the producers, nobody is forcing you to go to that park or watch that movie. It's not a "You must watch Episode VIII or be exiled to a deserted planet" kind of situation!

SoloSideCousin wrote:

snufkin wrote:

Slade wrote:

BenRey wrote:Man, there's really gonna be a change.org petition when Reylo becomes canon. All the signs are there. These people are unstable and will stop at nothing to shame us. Thankfully, Disney doesn't give a f****.

@BenRey

This is actually a hilarious idea!

@Slade

Reading this just brings up the mental image of all the Focus on the Family type groups who've tried to shut down Gay Days at Disneyworld.

@snufkin

Oh man ! Private company/organization/leaders determining their own destiny here, expressing freely, not hurting anybody. If you don't like the product or the producers, nobody is forcing you to go to that park or watch that movie. It's not a "You must watch Episode VIII or be exiled to a deserted planet" kind of situation!

@SoloSideCousin