Re: ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 12

by Guest Sun 11 Dec 2016, 3:19 pm

Rogue Rey wrote:Now I know I'm looking far ahead but is everyone happy about Colin Trevorrow and Derek Connolly writing Episode IX from a script treatment by Rian Johnson??? They made Jurassic World together and the the sequel, but Derek Connolly also wrote the up-coming Monster Trucks and well to put it politely it does not look good.

Would you prefer - just based on previous work, for Rian Johnson to be writing Ep IX?? Rian has been involved with the new saga films before TFA was even in production. Not sure how involved Colin and Derek have been thus far.

@Rogue Rey

No!

No, no, no, no, no, no! No!

I'm very worried about it for the reasons that "@Darth Rowan" mentioned and I agree with "@Darth Dingbat" that I wish Rian was writing the script full stop.

by Guest Sun 11 Dec 2016, 3:19 pm

Darth Rowan wrote:
Rogue Rey wrote:Now I know I'm looking far ahead but is everyone happy about Colin Trevorrow and Derek Connolly writing Episode IX from a script treatment by Rian Johnson??? They made Jurassic World together and the the sequel, but Derek Connolly also wrote the up-coming Monster Trucks and well to put it politely it does not look good.

Would you prefer - just based on previous work, for Rian Johnson to be writing Ep IX?? Rian has been involved with the new saga films before TFA was even in production. Not sure how involved Colin and Derek have been thus far.
@Rogue Rey

Oh boy, rant incoming.

I am terrified of Colin Trevorrow being at the helm of 9. This has been nagging at me from the moment I found out about it. I'm not going to say it keeps me up at night, but it does pop into my head at random times, just like some other unsavory facts of life. Hot dogs contain snouts and other icky parts. John Lennon was actually not a very a nice man in his personal life. Colin Trevorrow is writing and directing episode 9.

Yes, I am worried about this. I'm not one to mess with people's livelihood, but if there is a petition to remove him from 9 I immediately sign it, and if there are Tweets advocating for him to get the boot I like and retweet.

The way that women were dealt with in Jurassic World is cringe-inducing. Not just the eternally sobbing mom, the way the assistant was characterized and then savaged in the most violent and over the top death of any character in any Jurassic Park feature (and first ever death of a woman) - it was so random and vitriolic that it really made me wonder whether she was meant to be someone who had crossed Trevorrow in RL. Creepy stuff.

And then there's Bryce Dallas Howard's character. Obnoxious and tragically frigid boss lady whose ability to outrun T-Rexes in 3-inch stilettos eventually saves the day. That alone is eye-roll inducing to me, but the way they greased up the actress and tore up her skirt struck me as just degrading not just to the character but to me as a woman. I'm not usually offended by things that fail to meet a feminist standard, but Jurassic World has, to me, very clear misogynistic undertones that speak volumes, and that struck me and angered me on a very deep personal level. With that precedent I am worried about what Trevorrow's involvement in 9 portends. I am worried about what it will mean for the story, for the characterization of Rey and other women in the episode, for the dynamics between the characters, for the fandom.

For that reason I was very encouraged by hearing that the filming of 9 will begin much earlier than expected or required, and I'm hoping that this is Disney's way of keeping its options open in case Trevorrow doesn't pan out. Maybe Rian Johnson will step in at that point, or even J.J. Or the Rogue One director, idk. I just hope they have a hero on standby.

@Darth Rowan

I would like your post a million times if I could but I'll have to settle for once! Smile

You totally summed up why I disliked Jurassic World so much, even taking into account it was popcorn entertainment. The treatment of the female characters was like something from an earlier era. Just awful.

I've been concerned about Colin Trevorrow directing Ep IX since his name was announced. I would love to be proved wrong but going on his past record, the signs aren't good. I know he visited the set of Ep VIII, presumably multiple times, and has been working with Rian like Rian worked with JJ. I'm not sure if that report about Ep IX starting filming as early as April next year was legit because many of the main cast have other projects filming at that time. I know many actors juggle more than one job at a time so it's not impossible, I guess we'll see. Also, with what happened on Rogue One, it's clear the Disney/LF executives aren't going to just wave anything through. If they're not happy with what Trevorrow does, he will be getting "help" whether he wants it or not.

by Rimfaxe96 Sun 11 Dec 2016, 3:28 pm

Jakku wrote:I must admit I'm apprehensive about Colin Trevorrow being responsible for the last film, given the female characters in Jurassic World. Rey is such a tough, determined character, it would be criminal to 'feminise' (for which read: diminish to the kind of girlish helplessness that is comfortable for certain kinds of men) her warrior qualities.

@Jakku

Just read up on that - yuck, if Rey ends up like Claire IX will be a nightmare. Shocked

And frankly, Rey is already somewhat feminised IMO - still strong, but not quite as strong as I would have pictured her when looking at the concept art. Basically the concept art is Chloe (independent + bad***) while movie-Rey is Elena (going her own ways but still the occasional damsel in distress), both from the Uncharted games. Hoping for a Chloe in KMT's character; if she truly is she'd indeed blow my favourite character chart. Laughing

Hmm. To be honest, the only independently-bad*** female character in movies I can think of right now would be Alice from the Resident Evil movies. They're much easier to find in games, from Tomb Raider to Resident Evil's countless female characters (Ada Wong, Jill Valentine...).

by Helix Sun 11 Dec 2016, 3:30 pm

Do people really think Disney, Lucasfilm and Kathleen Kennedy ( who has been all about positive female characters ) would let that happen. I think the worst you have to worry about is popcorniess, not Rey being a 50's housewife.

by Rogue Rey Sun 11 Dec 2016, 3:44 pm

Okay I ended up posting this comment in the Ep VIII General Discussion by mistake:

Very fair points and it's nice to know that I'm not alone in having some reservations about the directing and writing (especially having seen the trailer for Monster Trucks!!) but I have faith that Trevorrow/Connolly/Johnson/Kennedy and co will bring it all together in a hopefully satisfying, brave and imaginative way - even if some people's noses get put out of joint in the process.

I think I remember people calling for Gareth Edwards' head and all the chatter about his work when they did some extensive reshoots for RO implying that he'd messed it all up and other people were being brought in to sort it out kinda makes me sad. Especially now that RO is getting a lot of early praise.

I also remember Josh Trank being lined up to do a SW anthology film but dropping out or being dropped but after Fantastic Four I can see why they parted ways.

And you're right @Little_Boots even the creator couldn't completely ruin his own creation.

by Helix Sun 11 Dec 2016, 3:48 pm

Rogue Rey wrote:Okay I ended up posting this comment in the Ep VIII General Discussion by mistake:

Very fair points and it's nice to know that I'm not alone in having some reservations about the directing and writing (especially having seen the trailer for Monster Trucks!!) but I have faith that Trevorrow/Connolly/Johnson/Kennedy and co will bring it all together in a hopefully satisfying, brave and imaginative way - even if some people's noses get put out of joint in the process.

I think I remember people calling for Gareth Edwards' head and all the chatter about his work when they did some extensive reshoots for RO implying that he'd messed it all up and other people were being brought in to sort it out kinda makes me sad. Especially now that RO is getting a lot of early praise.

I also remember Josh Trank being lined up to do a SW anthology film but dropping out or being dropped but after Fantastic Four I can see why they parted ways.

And you're right @Little_Boots even the creator couldn't completely ruin his own creation.

@Rogue Rey

I feel like there's a fine line between legit concerns and fear mongering ( for lack of a better term ) I think these concerns will end up being unwarranted.

by snufkin Sun 11 Dec 2016, 4:23 pm

Nobody's fear mongering, but given the reactions here about Jurassic Park from various female posters (who are here because they've felt welcomed into this new trilogy b/c of work done by KK) over how the characters were handled, it's a legitimate concern. At the least, given the amount of gatekeeping/stifling that seems to exist in most places around topics to do with female fandom, it's perfectly okay (and healthy) to have a discussion like this. Although to be fair, like I've said before, I haven't seen any online comment anywhere by somebody who's enthusiastic about him as a director/writer. We all hope that being under the supervision of KK et all (which includes RJ writing the story/treatment and input from people like Kasdan) will curb the unfortunate character development that happened with Jurassic World's female characters.

by Rogue Rey Sun 11 Dec 2016, 4:37 pm

Well I certainly hope that he will have learnt from his mistakes with the portrayal of the female characters in Jurassic World going forward in his career.

His next film (Director only - currently in post-production) is The Book of Henry staring Naomi Watts as a waitressing single Mother of two - her kids are played by (Star Wars über fan) Jacob Tremblay and (Adam Driver's Midnight Special co-star) Jaeden Lieberher.

Next it's the dino sequel (not directing but writing) and then Episode IX so fingers crossed he has learnt by then.

by Saracene Sun 11 Dec 2016, 5:14 pm

It's not even the portrayal of female characters in JW that worries me, it's the handling of characters, period. There's not one well-written character in that movie, male or female and not one arc of relationship that feels earned or well-executed.

TFA was plagued with similar problems (Kylo for my money is the only new character who really works), but I can forgive them more in a movie that's more or less a setup. But that sith can't fly in a final epic conclusion that's meant to bring characters' journeys in a satisfying manner.

by Kyla Ren Sun 11 Dec 2016, 5:21 pm

Reading through all the posts here about Jurassic World is making me think that I should probably rewatch it, because I have almost no recollection of any of the things that people are mentioning. I saw it in the theater when it first came out and I thought it was a very forgettable movie. I don't remember hating it, but I didn't really like it, either. I think my overall impression at the time was that it was just kind of lame. But I really don't remember much about it.

by Rei of Sunshine Sun 11 Dec 2016, 11:51 pm

I'm probably the only one here who enjoyed Claire running away from the T-Rex in her stilettos, and didn't mind her greasy look and ripped skirt.

It's a jungle. It's bound to happen. And not all bad*** women need to be Lara Croft or Rey. They can be Claire Dearing for all they want.

Although I won't mind Trevorrow directing IX at all. But I'm more interested in who's writing the script. Rian is writing a treatment, but the script will expand on that and the dialogue and interactions written there will impact the story.

by Mana Mon 12 Dec 2016, 12:03 am

Jurassic World characters were totally one dimensional and boring, but is it wrong that I kind of liked it?

by ZioRen Mon 12 Dec 2016, 12:39 am

Saracene wrote:It's not even the portrayal of female characters in JW that worries me, it's the handling of characters, period. There's not one well-written character in that movie, male or female and not one arc of relationship that feels earned or well-executed.

TFA was plagued with similar problems (Kylo for my money is the only new character who really works), but I can forgive them more in a movie that's more or less a setup. But that sith can't fly in a final epic conclusion that's meant to bring characters' journeys in a satisfying manner.

@Saracene

This is how I feel too. As much as the (usually sexist) reasoning behind most of the complaints about Rey pisses me off, I find myself agreeing with quite a lot of those complaints on the surface level. And even though Finn was the character I connected with the fastest, a lot about his writing was sloppy and frankly disappointing. TFA was far too much like ANH, and the mystery box that JJ set up is just plain bad and has sent the Star Wars fandom into a tizzy that will never be fixed without a good amount of backlash and anger that they brought on their own heads.

I'm fine with it because TFA is the very first movie and simply a set up to what I hope will be better and fulfilling films. But even if Rian blows VIII out of the water, a lot ultimately hinges on whether or not the ending can wrap it up in a satisfying way. And with who is at the helm of IX, I'm not all that incredibly optimistic. I'm not freaking out over it nor do I at all think it's a sure bet that it'll be meh, but I'm keeping a part of myself ready for that. Even Kylo's redemption, as much as I want it and believe it's necessary, could be done very wrong.

And there's my pessimism of the day. Laughing

by Saracene Mon 12 Dec 2016, 1:44 am

@Rei of Sunshine I didn't mind Claire running around in the high heels either. They could have easily made a joke at her expense, like hahaha dumb Claire stumbling around in totally impractical stilettos, and had her trip and land on her face or something, but they didn't hinder her at all. It was just something she wore.

@ZioRen I agree that there's an ugly streak of sexism in some of Rey's criticisms, but in the end it IMO comes down to weak writing, muddled character arc and obscured backstory. Luke's story in ANH is basic as, but it has a simplicity and clarity to it without silly mystery boxes, and a strong sense of build-up and pay-off. And as much as we refer to TFA as setup, there's really no excuse for it not to function well as its own movie, which it doesn't really.

by Helix Mon 12 Dec 2016, 4:27 am

Like I said do ya'll really think KK and Disney will let that happen? I haven't seen that addressed. JW was characters they created, with SW they'll be working with preexisting characters mostly, less room for error when you're following guidelines. Plus, Disney and the others can just axe him if it doesn't work. It's not that bad. I could understand the issues if this were any other franchise, but this new SW. They're not afraid to address issues with directors and writers.

Ya'll are throwing out everything they've said about positive characters and not bending to sexist remarks over one film and one director.

by motherofpearl1 Mon 12 Dec 2016, 6:22 am

Okay..
This sounds off topic at first but bear with me.
I'm a HUGE fan of comic books. I also enjoy the majority of comic book movies. But I am getting seriously fed up with the treatment of female characters in recent comic book movies,especially the Marvel ones. This is what makes me mad.
Iron Man - Pepper, great character,had terrific chemistry with Tony Stark, but gradually got less and less screen time before being written out off screen.Replaced by 'bromance' with Rhodey.
Betty - terrific in The Incredible Hulk, promptly disappeared after that.
Jane Foster - re imagined as a smart, sassy genius,played by an Oscar winning actress. Reduced to'damsel in distress' in Thor 2, completely absent from Thor 3. Replaced by 'bromance' with the Hulk.
Doctor Strange....female lead hardly features at all,instead yet another bromance.

And...you get the picture. Only Natasha Romanoff fared decently,presumably because the actress playing her is a sex symbol and she wears a tight catsuit.
I felt somewhat worried when Disney bought the rights to Star Wars, as they also own the Marvel comic franchise and I honestly thought we'd
get poorly written females. But it isn't Disney - it's Marvel, who I suspect are ran by middle aged men with the souls of college fratboys.

Because Disney have given us Rey. And Phasma. And Jyn. Three characters who are beautiful but also strong, independant and realistic; we don't get a girl who grew up on a harsh desert world and two soldiers running around in tight cleavage revealing catsuits. Although I have no objection to the actresses glamouring up if the occasion calls for it.
The moral of this long rambling rant is this; I can't see the company who created Jyn, Phasma and Rey allowing their director to turn the female lead(s) of Ep IX into drippy eye candy. And I definitely can't see Kathleen Kennedy allowing it!

by Mana Mon 12 Dec 2016, 6:39 am

I'm actually not worried about LF handling Rey and Jyn. Phasma may have had a cool outfit, but she was overall incredibly disappointing and a lame villain. The first ever female villain in a Star Wars movie caused the destruction of Starkiller base without even putting up a fight for some reason and then gets thrown down a garbage chute. Hopefully Rian does something different with her character for VIII.

by motherofpearl1 Mon 12 Dec 2016, 7:03 am

I have heard rumours she's getting more to do in VIII.

by Irina de France Mon 12 Dec 2016, 8:33 am

Also: we got Laura Dern in VIII. I have a feeling she might be playing an antagonist. And there's also Kelly Marie Tran's character coming up.

by motherofpearl1 Mon 12 Dec 2016, 9:33 am

Hell yes - i'm not familiar with Kelly's work but Dern does great bad a**.

by Helix Mon 12 Dec 2016, 9:44 am

I'm excited for Dern and have high hopes Kelly. I just have a lot more faith in the people in charge of SW now, I'd say it's about 98% good. We certainly need more variety in female leads and more PoC women, but the handling overall is very good. I don't think it's wrong to be concerned, but they've shown immense care and are willing to listen to certain criticism ( just not dumb ones like 'women can't fight!!' ) If this were being handled by Lucas/Fox back in the day I would be more concerned.

by Rei of Sunshine Mon 12 Dec 2016, 10:41 am

INB4 it happens in anyway, I bet people will ship Leia with Dern's character now that Han's gone. I have a feeling she's playing Leia's Alderaanian friend from the comics, and they might be shown to be close and friendly in Ep VIII.

Sorry this thought popped up while I was thinking about how all female characters get shipped by fans with someone regardless of their story arc.

by Helix Mon 12 Dec 2016, 10:57 am

Rei of Sunshine wrote:INB4 it happens in anyway, I bet people will ship Leia with Dern's character now that Han's gone. I have a feeling she's playing Leia's Alderaanian friend from the comics, and they might be shown to be close and friendly in Ep VIII.

Sorry this thought popped up while I was thinking about how all female characters get shipped by fans with someone regardless of their story arc.

@Rei of Sunshine

Not surprising considering the lack of LGBT characters. I know many lesbian fans who love Leia and would be all about shipping her with a woman. I'm all about Evaan/Leia. There's many people who ship for fun and don't care about whether the story supports it.

Spoiler:

by Darth Dingbat Mon 12 Dec 2016, 11:00 am

Rei of Sunshine wrote:INB4 it happens in anyway, I bet people will ship Leia with Dern's character now that Han's gone. I have a feeling she's playing Leia's Alderaanian friend from the comics, and they might be shown to be close and friendly in Ep VIII.

Sorry this thought popped up while I was thinking about how all female characters get shipped by fans with someone regardless of their story arc.

@Rei of Sunshine

Heck, I'm sure people will ship them even if - or especially if - Dern is a villain (as I suspect, myself). Razz

by motherofpearl1 Mon 12 Dec 2016, 11:13 am

But that is the joy of shipping isn't it - anything goes.It's just a bit of fun that brings people pleasure. No harm in it.

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